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Global coalition tells Facebook to kill its Real Names policy

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Re: Global coalition tells Facebook to kill its Real Names policy

#21

Post by pmlnr »

avolcano wrote: post #6

Good, I'm glad this is getting traction. Seems like every week I read about another trans person or someone who uses a psuedonym in day-to-day life getting "reported" by some asshole and getting locked out of their Facebook, and Facebook seems uninterested in fixing the issue. Honestly, it's heartbreaking, as someone who uses many Facebook open source projects, to talk to engineers at Facebook and find out how many d…

I don't get this. This is a company, a product, which no one is forced to use.*

If you disagree, walk away and don't touch Facebook; there are trillions of other options out there to build community sites, some much, much better than FB. That is how you make a change, not by enforcing ideas on a company.

*ED. For some situations I understand that it's inevitable - even schools use it as a generic broadcasting media nowadays. But for that, you can clearly use your 'real' name, can't you?

Re: Global coalition tells Facebook to kill its Real Names policy

#22

Post by mrweasel »

PostOnce wrote: post #3

Facebook was made large by the fact that you can find people you used to know, or haven't spoken to in a while, or aren't that close to. You can find anyone, it's easy. Removing the real names policy does away with that, and I would say seriously threaten's facebook's business/growth/future. If you don't know your old girlfriend or your cousin or your highschool bandmate's username, how are you going to get in touch…

I was thinking something along those lines. I think the strenght of Facebooks is that people use their real name. I wasn't even thinking about searchability, but that's potentially going right out the window.

3rd. parties that are using Facebook for logins are frequently using/allowing Facebook precisely because you're relative sure that it's "a real person". I know that's one reason why we're using it.

I might be wrong, but it certainly seems like people are less likely to engage in trolling or extremely bad behaviour if things are linked to Facebook, and I suspect that the real name policies are the reason.

It's not that I don't understand some peoples need for privacy or the use of pseudonyms, but you are playing in Facebooks walled garden, they make the rules. You don't have to be on Facebook, nor are you entitled to a Facebook account. Maybe you would be wise to avoid Facebook if you have the need to hide your identity.

Re: Global coalition tells Facebook to kill its Real Names policy

#23

Post by detaro »

PostOnce wrote: post #3

Facebook was made large by the fact that you can find people you used to know, or haven't spoken to in a while, or aren't that close to. You can find anyone, it's easy. Removing the real names policy does away with that, and I would say seriously threaten's facebook's business/growth/future. If you don't know your old girlfriend or your cousin or your highschool bandmate's username, how are you going to get in touch…

> People, I understand the arguments against real names. Facebook's counterargument is money.

Care to explain how forcing people to use their legal name instead of the name other people know them by equals less money?

Re: Global coalition tells Facebook to kill its Real Names policy

#24

Post by viraptor »

pmlnr wrote: post #2

Why? Anyone who disagrees with this had either already left Facebook or use something else for the communication, which, in my opinion, is good.

You're projecting a bit, I think. I disagree with their policy even though it doesn't affect me personally. For many communities there's simply no alternative to FB right now. Why should I just expect affected people to leave instead of expecting the problem to be fixed?

Re: Global coalition tells Facebook to kill its Real Names policy

#25

Post by detaro »

mrweasel wrote: post #22
PostOnce wrote: post #3

Facebook was made large by the fact that you can find people you used to know, or haven't spoken to in a while, or aren't that close to. You can find anyone, it's easy. Removing the real names policy does away with that, and I would say seriously threaten's facebook's business/growth/future. If you don't know your old girlfriend or your cousin or your highschool bandmate's username, how are you going to get in touch…

I was thinking something along those lines. I think the strenght of Facebooks is that people use their real name. I wasn't even thinking about searchability, but that's potentially going right out the window. 3rd. parties that are using Facebook for logins are frequently using/allowing Facebook precisely because you're relative sure that it's "a real person". I know that's one reason why we're using it. I might be wr…

But if I want a fake account, it is no problem to pick a name that is a totally standard name that won't raise any suspicion, so the real-name policy doesn't add anything.

Re: Global coalition tells Facebook to kill its Real Names policy

#26

Post by glormph »

Someone mentioned that FB may want to be the world's identity broker. I personally hate the idea, but if that's the case, they'll hardly give up their policy. Governmental ID brokers have exceptions to protect someone's identity. If FB wants to be taken seriously they should implement similar possibilities. The next one will then be please send us a police report stating you are in need of etc etc.

Re: Global coalition tells Facebook to kill its Real Names policy

#27

Post by DanBC »

pmlnr wrote: post #21
avolcano wrote: post #6

Good, I'm glad this is getting traction. Seems like every week I read about another trans person or someone who uses a psuedonym in day-to-day life getting "reported" by some asshole and getting locked out of their Facebook, and Facebook seems uninterested in fixing the issue. Honestly, it's heartbreaking, as someone who uses many Facebook open source projects, to talk to engineers at Facebook and find out how many d…

I don't get this. This is a company, a product, which no one is forced to use.* If you disagree, walk away and don't touch Facebook; there are trillions of other options out there to build community sites, some much, much better than FB. That is how you make a change, not by enforcing ideas on a company. *ED. For some situations I understand that it's inevitable - even schools use it as a generic broadcasting media n…

Are you saying it's fine that Facebook chooses to discriminate against GLBT+ people?

What happens if we sub in other minorities? "If black people disagree, walk away and don't touch Facebook"; "If Jews disagree, walk away and don't touch Facebook".

Re: Global coalition tells Facebook to kill its Real Names policy

#28

Post by DanBC »

glormph wrote: post #26

Someone mentioned that FB may want to be the world's identity broker. I personally hate the idea, but if that's the case, they'll hardly give up their policy. Governmental ID brokers have exceptions to protect someone's identity. If FB wants to be taken seriously they should implement similar possibilities. The next one will then be please send us a police report stating you are in need of etc etc.

But Facebook's policy ignore the law in many countries. In England I can use any name I choose so long as I don't have the intent to deceive.

I am legally allowed to be Ann and Bob simultaneously.

(admittedly that's a bit trickier when organisations "copper-bottom" regulations around identity, eg money laundering "Know your customer" regs.)

Re: Global coalition tells Facebook to kill its Real Names policy

#29

Post by aianus »

DanBC wrote: post #27
pmlnr wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get this. This is a company, a product, which no one is forced to use.* If you disagree, walk away and don't touch Facebook; there are trillions of other options out there to build community sites, some much, much better than FB. That is how you make a change, not by enforcing ideas on a company. *ED. For some situations I understand that it's inevitable - even schools use it as a generic broadcasting media n…

Are you saying it's fine that Facebook chooses to discriminate against GLBT+ people? What happens if we sub in other minorities? "If black people disagree, walk away and don't touch Facebook"; "If Jews disagree, walk away and don't touch Facebook".

They're not discriminating against GLBT+ people, they're discriminating against people using pseudonyms. I can't show up to a job interview, use a fake name, and claim I'm being discriminated against...

Re: Global coalition tells Facebook to kill its Real Names policy

#30

Post by DanBC »

aianus wrote: post #29
DanBC wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you saying it's fine that Facebook chooses to discriminate against GLBT+ people? What happens if we sub in other minorities? "If black people disagree, walk away and don't touch Facebook"; "If Jews disagree, walk away and don't touch Facebook".

They're not discriminating against GLBT+ people, they're discriminating against people using pseudonyms. I can't show up to a job interview, use a fake name, and claim I'm being discriminated against...

You know what indirect discrimination is, right?

> I can't show up to a job interview, use a fake name, and claim I'm being discriminated against...

You could if you're in the process of transitioning. (UK; the US needs to catch up).

And it's not a fake name. It's their name. You seem to think that people have this single thing which is their name - that might be true in the US (I dunno) but it's not true in many other places.

And because the US rules for changing names on documents are inconsistent a person may have a passport in one name but a driving licence in another.

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