A Culture Against Dropouts, Deviants and Troubled Young Adults • Hacker News Board

Re: A Culture Against Dropouts, Deviants and Troubled Young Adults

#41

Post by saint_fiasco » Sun, Oct 11, 2015, 6:31 PM UTC

duggan wrote: post #14

hugh4 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's _very_ important to avoid discouraging teenagers and young adults from going on their own path. Alternative idea: it's important to discourage teenagers and young adults from going their own path, to make sure that only those who are really prepared and committed will actually do it. Like the old Jewish tradition of telling anyone who wanted to convert "no, go away" three times before eventually letting them st…

The problem is that this is just rephrasing "survival of the fittest," a concept misappropriated from evolutionary theory into societal planning numerous times by despots, and which - to my mind - has no place in a society mindful of its incomplete information about what constitutes "fittest."

It's not like "unfit" people are being left to die. They are just encouraged to live normal real lives instead of young-adult-novel lives.

Re: A Culture Against Dropouts, Deviants and Troubled Young Adults

#42

Post by GhotiFish » Sun, Oct 11, 2015, 7:07 PM UTC

mwhuang2 wrote: post #32

My peers in high school were overachievers who seemed to have everything figured out. I had no idea what I was doing and often had close to failing grades, despite scoring high on standardized tests (2390 SAT + 800 SAT II Math). I got rejected from almost every college I applied to and ended up dropping out after a year when I actually did go. I worked two jobs and took community college classes for a year before ret…

I seriously wish I had stayed the hell away from college until I was mature enough to handle it. I wasted money going too early. Frankly, I may of gravitated to my profession without the aid of college. Throughout my career I've always ended up as informal tech support, and an informal in house developer. By jumping from job to job and accumulating developer experience in these informal venues, I may of had an alternative way to get my foot in the door to a real programming job.

Re: A Culture Against Dropouts, Deviants and Troubled Young Adults

#43

Post by douche » Sun, Oct 11, 2015, 7:32 PM UTC

tashoecraft wrote: post #37

forthefuture wrote: post #19

So I'm a similar situation except I'm hopelessly introverted. The idea of a bootcamp seems good to my parents, but to me it's just another word for school. At this point it would be easier to get a computer science degree than to do a bootcamp because doing work in groups is the first thing I check for on a syllabus before I drop a class. It sure looks good though, pay $15,000 for a 97% chance at getting a job. I jus…

As someone who is currently finishing up Fullstack, you do have to work in groups but it isn't the bullshit you have to do in college. You pair program with different people each day to work through workshops. You work in groups on projects, but everyone pulls their weight and it isn't at all what I had experience in groups in college. If you don't know how to work in a group, then you don't know everything you need…

People really pair program all day long? Gah, that sounds maddening and inefficient. I would probably lose my shit if I had to interact like that with someone every minute of the day.

Sure, take a few minutes to look something over, talk over what the issue is, look at some data, decide what ought to be done, but then you've got to go do the work.

I guess I'm like an old Apple II. I can have my Write_Code disk in, or I can have my Deal_With_People disk in, but I've only got one disk drive.

Re: A Culture Against Dropouts, Deviants and Troubled Young Adults

#44

Post by dopeboy » Sun, Oct 11, 2015, 8:04 PM UTC

It takes a lot of courage to write something like this. Lindsay, if you're reading this, I tip my hat off to you for sitting down and delving deep into some of these challenges. Only when we make ourselves truly vulnerable do we grow and I hope both the actual act of writing this piece and the subsequent commentary you get makes you a better human being.

As a "traditionally educated" person who went to a public school and an ivy, university is very much optimized for people who can be programmed easily. And I don't mean that in a nefarious / brainwashy type of way. School is a game with rules and objectives. Follow the rules, modestly achieve the objectives, and you're validated with a degree. This validation is sanctioned by society and in some places (law, medicine), mandated by law.

Go off path? Deviate and carve your own path? Refuse to go on a path? You're off reservation and labelled a "dropout." You're not in the box everyone is used to conceptualizing you in. They don't understand you which leads to one of two reactions: 1) they fear you or 2) they dismiss you as a non-threat.

Re: A Culture Against Dropouts, Deviants and Troubled Young Adults

#45

Post by Futurebot » Sun, Oct 11, 2015, 10:14 PM UTC

dopeboy wrote: post #44

It takes a lot of courage to write something like this. Lindsay, if you're reading this, I tip my hat off to you for sitting down and delving deep into some of these challenges. Only when we make ourselves truly vulnerable do we grow and I hope both the actual act of writing this piece and the subsequent commentary you get makes you a better human being. As a "traditionally educated" person who went to a public schoo…

I'd add to that list "couldn't go on the path in the first place", too, as there are plenty of people who fall into that bucket. I wish there were more public acknowledgement of the sentiments in your last paragraph. Refreshing comment.

Re: A Culture Against Dropouts, Deviants and Troubled Young Adults

#46

Post by Moto7451 » Sun, Oct 11, 2015, 11:33 PM UTC

mwhuang2 wrote: post #39

55555 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You had a 2390 on your SATs and were rejected from colleges?

I applied mostly to Ivies and similarly competitive colleges. They get plenty of applicants with near-perfect test scores and GPAs, so my poor grades made me a subpar candidate.

This happened with people in the highly gifted magnet at my High School. It didn't matter that they were taking nothing but AP classes by teachers hell bent on being extremely difficult. They saw consistent C and B grades and a 1600/2400 (I went to High School during the transition from 2 part to 3 part SAT). Some didn't get accepted anywhere due to the fact they only applied two a few Ivy League schools.

Re: A Culture Against Dropouts, Deviants and Troubled Young Adults

#47

Post by jokoon » Mon, Oct 12, 2015, 8:03 AM UTC

ambicapter wrote: post #36

jokoon wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You only exist now because your predecessors interacted. You mean sex ? I don't think you need to be social to see sex happening. > However, if you label yourself as 'introvert' or 'extrovert' you limit your potential experiences, and I don't see the point in that. Yeah, that's why introversion/extroversion is called a spectrum, even an introvert needs to be social once in a while. Also I'm sure introvert people ha…

> You mean sex ? I don't think you need to be social to see sex happening. Uh, can you clarify.

I don't think you need to have an extended amount of social interaction to have sex happening. Sexuality and sexual impulse are there to make social interaction to so much necessary.