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Ask HN: Resources for learning manual software testing?

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Re: Ask HN: Resources for learning manual software testing?

#11

Post by UweSchmidt »

klunger wrote: post #9
SotA89 wrote: post #2

A good start would be the ISTQB foundation level syllabus. While the ISTQB seem to be a litte outdated in terms of their views on the software development process: A focus on sequential waterfall-like models - it is a good resource to learn the vocabulary of software testing. Furthermore it explains different types and stages of software testing: http://www.istqb.org/downloads/viewdownload/16/15.html

Yes, this is a real problem! I learned testing in a waterfall environment (basically followed IEEE standards, ISQTB processes) and now work at a company that is more Agile. So many of the skills/techniques are fundamentally incompatible.

Predictably the concept of testing in an agile environment has also been been explored, even if not in the core syllabus:

http://www.istqb.org/certification-path-root/agile-tester-ex...

Re: Ask HN: Resources for learning manual software testing?

#12

Post by Morendil »

Point him to "Lessons Learned in Software Testing" by Bach, Kaner and Pettichord: http://www.amazon.com/dp/0471081124

Also, "manual testing" is a slightly unfortunate monicker for the activity we are discussing. It is bound to generate some degree of incomprehension or even hostility on the part of some people, for no foreseeable benefit. "Testing" will do. It is something you do with your head primarily, your hands being involved to pretty much the same degree that they are in programming (and we don't usually call that "manual programming").

Re: Ask HN: Resources for learning manual software testing?

#13

Post by stingraycharles »

airza wrote: post #10
stingraycharles wrote: post #3

Hmmm. I think you're looking at this the wrong way: it is not he who should be learning more about manual testing, it is you who needs to learn about how to write manual tests. Manual testing is not at all that different from, say, integration testing: you write a specification of a task that needs to be performed, you write down the expected output, and you compare it with the actual output. What you end up with is…

Ahh, this is the kind of thinking that frustrated me in my time as a software tester. From a functionality perspective: maybe, but if the developer needs to explain the intended functionality of the application to the business end of the product then something has gone horribly wrong. From a sheer "finding bugs" perspective: If you knew what would actually expose buggy functionality to the extent that you could write…

I think we are talking about different goals. If the goal of the test is for sheer fun "bug hunting", a more pragmatic approach should indeed be taken. If, as I interpreted it, the "business guy" is going to do some kind of acceptance testing, and you want to be able to perform this test multiple times, you want the tests to be specific and well documented.

In other words: OP, start with telling us what you want to achieve with your manual tests!

Re: Ask HN: Resources for learning manual software testing?

#15

Post by mattmanser »

stingraycharles wrote: post #3

Hmmm. I think you're looking at this the wrong way: it is not he who should be learning more about manual testing, it is you who needs to learn about how to write manual tests. Manual testing is not at all that different from, say, integration testing: you write a specification of a task that needs to be performed, you write down the expected output, and you compare it with the actual output. What you end up with is…

This makes no sense to me as there are a load of things good testers do which shouldn't be in instructions and most developers don't think of, otherwise they'd have coded against it.

Even silly things like whacking a single button loads really quickly to see what happens. Did you just order 100 tickets? Take down the site?

So telling someone to write better instructions seems a bizarre approach.

Re: Ask HN: Resources for learning manual software testing?

#16

Post by regularjack »

Morendil wrote: post #12

Point him to "Lessons Learned in Software Testing" by Bach, Kaner and Pettichord: http://www.amazon.com/dp/0471081124 Also, "manual testing" is a slightly unfortunate monicker for the activity we are discussing. It is bound to generate some degree of incomprehension or even hostility on the part of some people, for no foreseeable benefit. "Testing" will do. It is something you do with your head primarily, your hands…

I believe the OP used the term "manual" to differentiate from "automated" testing, e.g. unit tests.

Re: Ask HN: Resources for learning manual software testing?

#17

Post by DCoder »

ume wrote: post #14

The Ministry of Testing is a good starting point, http://www.ministryoftesting.com If doesn't sound like you are providing an API but if you are feel free to mail me directly (email is in my profile) for some resources; my company works in that area of testing.

> (email is in my profile)

The "Email" field in your profile is private, others can't see it. You need to put your email in the "About" field for it to be publicly visible.

Re: Ask HN: Resources for learning manual software testing?

#18

Post by Too »

mattmanser wrote: post #15
stingraycharles wrote: post #3

Hmmm. I think you're looking at this the wrong way: it is not he who should be learning more about manual testing, it is you who needs to learn about how to write manual tests. Manual testing is not at all that different from, say, integration testing: you write a specification of a task that needs to be performed, you write down the expected output, and you compare it with the actual output. What you end up with is…

This makes no sense to me as there are a load of things good testers do which shouldn't be in instructions and most developers don't think of, otherwise they'd have coded against it. Even silly things like whacking a single button loads really quickly to see what happens. Did you just order 100 tickets? Take down the site? So telling someone to write better instructions seems a bizarre approach.

The purpose of instruction based testing is usually to avoid regression bugs and to make sure requirements are fulfilled. Randomly poking around is also good, this is why you have manually based instruction testing instead of just automating everything, while performing the instructions you usually notice weird things on the side. Neither alternative can replace the other fully.

Re: Ask HN: Resources for learning manual software testing?

#20

Post by a3n »

DCoder wrote: post #17
ume wrote: post #14

The Ministry of Testing is a good starting point, http://www.ministryoftesting.com If doesn't sound like you are providing an API but if you are feel free to mail me directly (email is in my profile) for some resources; my company works in that area of testing.

> (email is in my profile) The "Email" field in your profile is private, others can't see it. You need to put your email in the "About" field for it to be publicly visible.

Some manual testing would have uncovered that.
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