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Psychedelics Could Trigger A 'Paradigm Shift' In Mental Health Care

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Re: Psychedelics Could Trigger A 'Paradigm Shift' In Mental Health Care

#91

Post by cnp »

MichaelGG wrote: post #81
carapace wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These chemicals are tools, no more and no less. They should be investigated with intelligence and caution. Take drugs soberly, if at all. I know a few people who have basically ruined their lives though what I would call "abuse" of drugs including MDMA, LSD, cannabis, and nitrous oxide(!) (as opposed to the more obvious drugs like crystal meth, heroin, and crack.) That said, I know of a few people who had cancer, and…

Those facts , as you put it, really mean nothing other than maybe someone should do a study and see if there's any real correlation. How many other people had cancer, used plenty of cannabis, then died or continued to have cancer? There's billions of people in the world. That means the frequency of "Bad thing, Weird thing, Good thing" will often be nonzero for all sorts of things.

You should listen what people have to say when they describe it as a "Love Bomb", as "Seeing God", etc -- sometimes a little less quantifying can go very far in resolving problems physical or otherwise; the trick is experience and an open mind. The testimonials describing these substances as powerful healing tools is endless -- there is validity in this fact.

Re: Psychedelics Could Trigger A 'Paradigm Shift' In Mental Health Care

#92

Post by forgetsusername »

carapace wrote: post #67
MichaelGG wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh this sounds like exactly what was wrong with the early LSD promoters. Psychedelics are the mythical "love bomb"? I do not think the evidence supports that. While I think the world would be far better off if everyone had tried it, I don't think it'd stop wars or anything. At best, it might get people to sit up and think a bit, and turn to rationality for explanations. But in real life, seeing as how one's predispos…

These chemicals are tools, no more and no less. They should be investigated with intelligence and caution. Take drugs soberly, if at all. I know a few people who have basically ruined their lives though what I would call "abuse" of drugs including MDMA, LSD, cannabis, and nitrous oxide(!) (as opposed to the more obvious drugs like crystal meth, heroin, and crack.) That said, I know of a few people who had cancer, and…

>These chemicals are tools, no more and no less.

The way I like to look at it is the odd trip (or even pot to a lesser extent) "exercises" the brain by pulling us out of the mundane, repetitive grind that is everyday life for most people. You see things differently, think about things differently and it acts to keep your brain "on its toes".

No magic, just chemically induced neurological exercise.

Re: Psychedelics Could Trigger A 'Paradigm Shift' In Mental Health Care

#93

Post by baobabaobab »

Mz wrote: post #88

"The exciting thing isn't just that these drugs work for something that we already have treatment for. It's that they're getting big effects on disorders for which we have very poor treatment." It sounds to me like it may imply that much of what we call "mental health" disorders are really somatopsychic conditions.

Wait, do people think that mental health disorders somehow don't involve brain function? What else could it possibly be?

Re: Psychedelics Could Trigger A 'Paradigm Shift' In Mental Health Care

#94

Post by [deleted] »

baobabaobab wrote: post #93
Mz wrote: post #88

"The exciting thing isn't just that these drugs work for something that we already have treatment for. It's that they're getting big effects on disorders for which we have very poor treatment." It sounds to me like it may imply that much of what we call "mental health" disorders are really somatopsychic conditions.

Wait, do people think that mental health disorders somehow don't involve brain function? What else could it possibly be?

[deleted]

Re: Psychedelics Could Trigger A 'Paradigm Shift' In Mental Health Care

#95

Post by jzd »

marincounty wrote: post #32
sanoli wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've known about thirty people who have used Lsd routinely for years, and I have to agree with you. The only significant difference is that some of them talk like it drammatically changes them. The effect doesn't seem much different from the people I know who really like a hobby and exxagerate its effects. I of course know lsd is something serious and psychedelically powerful, and agree it should be studied.

I am pro drugs. I actually feel most drugs, except antiboiotics, should be available over the counter. That said, the one drug I have seem people injest, and come back slightly different people is LSD. I have never taken the drug, but I had two close, intelligent friends in high school go off to U.C. Santa Cruz and literally come back different people. We were all so young, and still finding ourselfs, but the differe…

MJ almost always gives me the feeling of heart palpitations, unlike LSD.

Re: Psychedelics Could Trigger A 'Paradigm Shift' In Mental Health Care

#96

Post by Mz »

baobabaobab wrote: post #93
Mz wrote: post #88

"The exciting thing isn't just that these drugs work for something that we already have treatment for. It's that they're getting big effects on disorders for which we have very poor treatment." It sounds to me like it may imply that much of what we call "mental health" disorders are really somatopsychic conditions.

Wait, do people think that mental health disorders somehow don't involve brain function? What else could it possibly be?

Uh, I think most people have some vague, hand-wavy notion about "the mind" and social factors, (largely) disconnected from brain function.

Re: Psychedelics Could Trigger A 'Paradigm Shift' In Mental Health Care

#97

Post by kirsebaer »

MichaelGG wrote: post #84
WorldWideWayne wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we'd probably end up with a lot of people thinking they now know the answers. People thinking that they know things that they actually don't is definitely a problem. I find that it happens way more often in people who have never tried LSD though. People use false assumptions and self-lies all the time to survive this world. Here's an example: > It's why a lot of pro-LSD people are simply not taken seriously, becaus…

... There's zero evidence that consciousness exists outside of the physical world. There's plenty of evidence that it does exist as something brains create. There's plenty of evidence that poking it chemically or otherwise causes changes in consciousness. In some cases, scientists have some ideas about how that might sorta happen (like the release of dopamine or serotonin). No one seems to disagree that taking, say,…

Think about the song Amazing Grace: "How sweet the sound that saved a wretch like me; I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see". That was written by a guy who had abandoned his career as the captain of a slave-trading ship after having a spiritual awakening.

The transcendental, mystical, transformative, touching-infinity experiences that people report from psychedelics go far beyond any philosophical concepts about "physical reality" or "consciousness". You don't need to hold any particular dogmatic beliefs to try out and perhaps benefit from psychedelics.

You might feel at home with the people at /r/RationalPsychonaut: https://www.reddit.com/r/RationalPsychonaut/

Of course, you make a lot of good points. People should use rationality and critical thinking. And some psychedelic users can certainly be annoying.

Re: Psychedelics Could Trigger A 'Paradigm Shift' In Mental Health Care

#98

Post by kirsebaer »

chicagorailsdev wrote: post #87
Nursie wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I swear, one of the most import pieces of research that needs to be done on them is their capability to induce a false sense of the profound, and make people believe psychedelics will fix everything about the world. Yes, they can be useful, they can make you see yourself differently and see people differently. But they can equally be a pretty blinkenlight show that makes you giggle for hours with friends. Or be distr…

It's so refreshing to see a critical take on psychedelics. While psychedelics can make you feel like some insight or thought is incredibly profound, often times it turns out to be incredibly banal when revisited with a sober mind. Don't get me wrong - I've some incredible trips on mushrooms and acid, some of which completely shattered my ego and made me see the world from in a totally different light. But when the af…

One suggestion to increase potential practical benefit and decrease chance of "banal" generalities might be to go into the trip with a specific question or problem that you are working on.

Some examples from the recent CNN Money story about Silicon Valley executives who take LSD:

> An employee of one of the biggest Silicon Valley companies said he recently made a pivotal career decision while under the influence of magic mushrooms -- changing course from a management track and moving into product security.

> Meanwhile, in the late '90s, a former high level employee of a major software company (who asked not to be named) said he was taking psychedelics with the "specific intent of working on software problems." On one highly successful trip, he came up with design ideas, features and architectural improvements to a piece of software today used by millions.

http://money.cnn.com/2015/01/25/technology/lsd-psychedelics-...

Sorry to hear about your friend. It is very important to get some sleep if you feel manic. Also its a good idea to give yourself a few days or more to think before implementing any ideas obtained on psychedelics.

Re: Psychedelics Could Trigger A 'Paradigm Shift' In Mental Health Care

#99

Post by ArkyBeagle »

The man made the "unreliable narrator" his main device, but I think "Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas" should put to rest any idea that such trendy chemical amusement aids have much therapeutic value in the general case.

It least puts such ideas in a position of having to work a lot harder to make their case.

Re: Psychedelics Could Trigger A 'Paradigm Shift' In Mental Health Care

#100

Post by cnp »

kirsebaer wrote: post #97
MichaelGG wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... There's zero evidence that consciousness exists outside of the physical world. There's plenty of evidence that it does exist as something brains create. There's plenty of evidence that poking it chemically or otherwise causes changes in consciousness. In some cases, scientists have some ideas about how that might sorta happen (like the release of dopamine or serotonin). No one seems to disagree that taking, say,…

Think about the song Amazing Grace: "How sweet the sound that saved a wretch like me; I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see". That was written by a guy who had abandoned his career as the captain of a slave-trading ship after having a spiritual awakening. The transcendental, mystical, transformative, touching-infinity experiences that people report from psychedelics go far beyond any philosophical…

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
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