Why police could seize a college student's life savings without charging him • Hacker News Board

Re: Why police could seize a college student's life savings without charging him

#101

Post by LeUsername » Sat, Oct 10, 2015, 6:11 PM UTC

superuser2 wrote: post #41

MichaelGG wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having cops steal money should not be a risk anyone is taking, let alone a stupid one. If he got mugged, that'd be another thing. Also, free alternatives? Elaborate. And certainly they aren't free from surveillance. We should encourage and treat the carrying of $$$$$ in cash as a normal thing to do.

Checking accounts. Bitcoin (not free, but close). If it weren't the state, it could just as easily have been an ordinary mugger, or an airline employee theft, or simple airline incompetence. >And certainly they aren't free from surveillance. If you want a financial system free from surveillance then you need to get the public on board with ending taxation (and consequently all public services). Good luck. And, as we…

> Bitcoin (not free, but close).

Suggesting Bitcoin in its current state of evolution as a free and "vastly safer" alternative to carrying cash is CRAZY. Whereas having the cash on you carries the risk of being mugged (I understood the story that he had the cash directly with him when the police arrived, it wasn't in the checked luggage, therefore the airline risks you mention do not apply), using Bitcoin carries much higher risks of:

- exchange going bust,

- exchange being hacked,

- exchange rate going down violently,

- Bitcoin wallet being stolen from his computer via malware,

- exchange's banking accounts being seized.

To a layperson unskilled with Bitcoin, walking with 11,000 USD in pockets through airport, using taxi/Uber and arriving in front of your door in a non-ghetto neighbourhood compares to Bitcoin as putting that cash into transparent bag, hanging it on your neck and walking through deserted city at night yelling "look, I have cash".

And even when you are skilled or take (a lot of) your time to read about everything starting with comparing various exchanges, securing your computer, using paper wallets, etc., you are dependant on very volatile exchange rate.

I generally support Bitcoin for various purposes (e.g. e-commerce) based on various reasons. But no, it certainly is not "vastly safer" for storing or even merely transferring your life savings, especially for a non-skilled person.

Re: Why police could seize a college student's life savings without charging him

#102

Post by joeax » Sat, Oct 10, 2015, 6:14 PM UTC

joshuaheard wrote: post #74

hmottestad wrote: post #8

Now I'm not sure if Norway has similar laws, but I haven't heard of any. However, watching John Oliver talk about how ridiculous the civil forfeiture laws are in the US just makes me want to laugh so much. I know of all the great things happening in the US, and I'm not calling you a bad country. But it's so hard not to categorise you together with North Korea, China and the United Arab Emirates with how trigger happy…

Don't get your news from a comedian. Edit: Sorry, still on my first cup of coffee. Here it goes: the purpose of news is to objectively inform you of facts. The purpose of these comedy shows is to make you laugh, often by distorting or exaggerating the facts. By getting your news from comedy shows, you are receiving a distorted view of reality, which you seem to admit in your post. However, I see this as a greater pro…

The irony here is comedians speak the truth while politicians lie. If John Oliver, George Carlin (my favorite), et al were serious in their monologues hardly anyone would listen to them.

Re: Why police could seize a college student's life savings without charging him

#103

Post by joeax » Sat, Oct 10, 2015, 6:17 PM UTC

LancerSykera wrote: post #21

Minnesota recently fixed this so that a criminal conviction is necessary before forfeiture, and when I texted my state representative about it, he said my state senator already has a bill for it in committee in Pennsylvania. http://www.forbes.com/sites/instituteforjustice/2014/05/07/m...

New Mexico too. And Ohio soon. Luckily the dominos are falling.

https://reason.com/blog/2015/06/09/this-map-details-whether-...

Re: Why police could seize a college student's life savings without charging him

#104

Post by nathancahill » Sat, Oct 10, 2015, 6:22 PM UTC

douche wrote: post #98

davismwfl wrote: post #96

It bugs me reading some of the the comments here blaming the person that did nothing illegal by carrying cash. It doesn't matter if you (or I) feel it is inadvisable to carry cash, it isn't illegal. Smoking pot (illegal in most places) before flying is obviously not the brightest idea given the enhanced level of security at an airport. So I am ok with the "smell" prompting some extra questions (even an agreed to sear…

I'm really curious, how do you not qualify for a savings account? I've never seen a bank that wouldn't take money, especially when they can charge account maintenance fees.

When you're counting every dollar, why would you want to pay a bank maintenance fees?

Re: Why police could seize a college student's life savings without charging him

#105

Post by x0ra » Sat, Oct 10, 2015, 6:24 PM UTC

travisp wrote: post #100

powera wrote: post #91

The TLDR is "Don't carry thousands of dollars of physical cash unless you want to risk the police [or some criminal] stealing it". Which is an awful thing to say about the police, but is probably reasonable advice to give.

It's worth noting that civil forfeiture doesn't just apply to cash. It can be (and has been) used against bank accounts or pretty much any property you can own. For example, here's a case where the government tried to seize $115,000 from a couple's bank accounts (without charging them with a crime): http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2015/05/08/after-seizing-couples-ba...

...but the police is less likely to go through all your immaterial belongings for just a smell of weed.

Re: Why police could seize a college student's life savings without charging him

#106

Post by cryoshon » Sat, Oct 10, 2015, 6:25 PM UTC

douche wrote: post #98

davismwfl wrote: post #96

It bugs me reading some of the the comments here blaming the person that did nothing illegal by carrying cash. It doesn't matter if you (or I) feel it is inadvisable to carry cash, it isn't illegal. Smoking pot (illegal in most places) before flying is obviously not the brightest idea given the enhanced level of security at an airport. So I am ok with the "smell" prompting some extra questions (even an agreed to sear…

I'm really curious, how do you not qualify for a savings account? I've never seen a bank that wouldn't take money, especially when they can charge account maintenance fees.

Many banks require a credit check to open a bank account without meeting a minimum balance... no way of getting credit in the first place if you're that poor.

Re: Why police could seize a college student's life savings without charging him

#107

Post by hectormalot » Sat, Oct 10, 2015, 6:26 PM UTC

douche wrote: post #98

davismwfl wrote: post #96

It bugs me reading some of the the comments here blaming the person that did nothing illegal by carrying cash. It doesn't matter if you (or I) feel it is inadvisable to carry cash, it isn't illegal. Smoking pot (illegal in most places) before flying is obviously not the brightest idea given the enhanced level of security at an airport. So I am ok with the "smell" prompting some extra questions (even an agreed to sear…

I'm really curious, how do you not qualify for a savings account? I've never seen a bank that wouldn't take money, especially when they can charge account maintenance fees.

The main reasons are probably regulation and effort/difficulty to serve.

Assuming you are a US citizen, I highly invite you to come over to Switzerland and try and open a (savings) account if you wish to experience it in person. I'm currently living here, and talking to my US colleagues, I've found that it is near impossible for them to open an account, even though they would bring money to the banks here.

Reasoning? Issues of the US with the Swiss banking system has made these customers more of a pain than a benefit. I'm sure a similar argument can be made for people who (perhaps accidentally) have a bad credit score

Re: Why police could seize a college student's life savings without charging him

#108

Post by fmihaila » Sat, Oct 10, 2015, 6:26 PM UTC

joshuaheard wrote: post #74

hmottestad wrote: post #8

Now I'm not sure if Norway has similar laws, but I haven't heard of any. However, watching John Oliver talk about how ridiculous the civil forfeiture laws are in the US just makes me want to laugh so much. I know of all the great things happening in the US, and I'm not calling you a bad country. But it's so hard not to categorise you together with North Korea, China and the United Arab Emirates with how trigger happy…

Don't get your news from a comedian. Edit: Sorry, still on my first cup of coffee. Here it goes: the purpose of news is to objectively inform you of facts. The purpose of these comedy shows is to make you laugh, often by distorting or exaggerating the facts. By getting your news from comedy shows, you are receiving a distorted view of reality, which you seem to admit in your post. However, I see this as a greater pro…

"Last Week Tonight" is a commentary news show that also happens to be funny. Its content is entirely factual and has way more in common with "60 Minutes" than with "Saturday Night Live". I'd argue that the purpose of the show is in fact to make you cry. Sometimes laughing makes that easier.

Re: Why police could seize a college student's life savings without charging him

#109

Post by x0ra » Sat, Oct 10, 2015, 6:26 PM UTC

readme wrote: post #72

hoffspot wrote: post #5

I'm not saying the police are right, the whole seizure thing is ridiculous, but this story is so shady. You have 11 grand in cash and want to move it from A to B. The obvious and safe way is to deposit it in a bank and get a cashier's check or do an ACH transfer. Who in their right mind would carry it with them or even worse, put it in a checked bag that airlines notoriously lose? The point of the story is valid, but…

You know what man, you're absolutely right. But most people here are going to disagree with you, downvote you, and your brand new account is only going to be visible when I click "showdead" because apparently HN can't handle an opinion without hitting the down button. I would bet you so much, not a soul on HN would dream of carrying 11k in cash through an airport. It's ok though, we should make sure people have the r…

... but technically, weed is still a schedule 1 drug, so he is a criminal.

Re: Why police could seize a college student's life savings without charging him

#110

Post by reagency » Sat, Oct 10, 2015, 6:30 PM UTC

eldavido wrote: post #61

Civil asset forfeiture is horrible and we should get rid of it. On a different note, my takeaway from this story: pick your battles. Sure, you can go into an airport with $11k in cash. Maybe you're a Sikh and you want to carry a kirpan [0] into the airport, or you're a high school kid working on a science project and you have a bunch of C-cell batteries taped together with wires hanging out the ends of them (experien…

That's great if you are privileged enough to pass as normal. Not acting Jewish was fine in 1937 Germany too, until that wasn't good enough and they started checking who your grandparents were.