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Psychedelics Could Trigger A 'Paradigm Shift' In Mental Health Care

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Re: Psychedelics Could Trigger A 'Paradigm Shift' In Mental Health Care

#71

Post by exodust »

codeshaman wrote: post #6

They can trigger a paradigm shift in many other areas, not just mental health care. Except it's so hard to explain this to a 'normal' person, who's never taken any. "If God were to permit you a brief voyage into the divine process, let you whirl for a second into the atomic nucleus or spin you out on a light-year trip through the galaxies, how on earth would you describe what you saw when you got back, breathless, to…

"And they could, in theory, cure cancer...."

Did you really just say that?

Cancer of the liver; cancer of the rectum; cancer of the [insert body part], has nothing to do with the actions that psychedelics have on your body.

Psychedelics are for the brain and mind, not the abnormal cells attacking your rectum.

The only mention of cancer in the article is treating cancer related anxiety. Getting high and curing cancer at the same time wasn't part of the research. Mentioning such ridiculous ideas only poisons the discussion, and drags the legitimate scientific effort through the mud of false belief, back down to the bottom of the reputation barrel.

Re: Psychedelics Could Trigger A 'Paradigm Shift' In Mental Health Care

#72

Post by WorldWideWayne »

exodust wrote: post #71
codeshaman wrote: post #6

They can trigger a paradigm shift in many other areas, not just mental health care. Except it's so hard to explain this to a 'normal' person, who's never taken any. "If God were to permit you a brief voyage into the divine process, let you whirl for a second into the atomic nucleus or spin you out on a light-year trip through the galaxies, how on earth would you describe what you saw when you got back, breathless, to…

"And they could, in theory, cure cancer...." Did you really just say that? Cancer of the liver; cancer of the rectum; cancer of the [insert body part], has nothing to do with the actions that psychedelics have on your body. Psychedelics are for the brain and mind, not the abnormal cells attacking your rectum. The only mention of cancer in the article is treating cancer related anxiety. Getting high and curing cancer…

I'm not defending the GP's statement about curing cancer, but could you explain your position that "things that affect the brain/mind" cannot affect "insert body part"?

How do you know that? Are you saying that the brain/mind have no effect on the body?

Please point to the scientific research that states that psychedelics definitely do not affect your rectum. At that point, your statement will be more valuable to me than the GP's. As of now, it's at equal value.

Re: Psychedelics Could Trigger A 'Paradigm Shift' In Mental Health Care

#74

Post by DanBC »

WorldWideWayne wrote: post #72
exodust wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"And they could, in theory, cure cancer...." Did you really just say that? Cancer of the liver; cancer of the rectum; cancer of the [insert body part], has nothing to do with the actions that psychedelics have on your body. Psychedelics are for the brain and mind, not the abnormal cells attacking your rectum. The only mention of cancer in the article is treating cancer related anxiety. Getting high and curing cancer…

I'm not defending the GP's statement about curing cancer, but could you explain your position that "things that affect the brain/mind" cannot affect "insert body part"? How do you know that? Are you saying that the brain/mind have no effect on the body? Please point to the scientific research that states that psychedelics definitely do not affect your rectum. At that point, your statement will be more valuable to me…

did you just say that negative thinking can cause cancer?

Re: Psychedelics Could Trigger A 'Paradigm Shift' In Mental Health Care

#75

Post by WorldWideWayne »

DanBC wrote: post #74
WorldWideWayne wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not defending the GP's statement about curing cancer, but could you explain your position that "things that affect the brain/mind" cannot affect "insert body part"? How do you know that? Are you saying that the brain/mind have no effect on the body? Please point to the scientific research that states that psychedelics definitely do not affect your rectum. At that point, your statement will be more valuable to me…

did you just say that negative thinking can cause cancer?

I did not.

Re: Psychedelics Could Trigger A 'Paradigm Shift' In Mental Health Care

#76

Post by DanBC »

Alex3917 wrote: post #58
tptacek wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since we don't have reliable screening for basic mental illnesses, I find it implausible that we have "reliable" screening for these kinds of vulnerabilities. I must be missing something; any thoughts?

> I must be missing something; any thoughts? Since the beginning of the era of modern psychedelic research, no one has developed any serious longterm mental illness as the result of taking psychedelics in a research setting. And this is out of thousands of people. I think part of the reason is that it's actually a lot easier to determine if someone is predisposed to mental illness than it actually is to determine if…

That one elephant died.

Although the elephant got a considerably larger dose (297 mg!!) than people would, and the experimenters handled the situation poorly.

http://www.theguardian.com/science/2004/feb/26/research.scie...

Re: Psychedelics Could Trigger A 'Paradigm Shift' In Mental Health Care

#77

Post by EC1 »

MichaelGG wrote: post #21
codeshaman wrote: post #6

They can trigger a paradigm shift in many other areas, not just mental health care. Except it's so hard to explain this to a 'normal' person, who's never taken any. "If God were to permit you a brief voyage into the divine process, let you whirl for a second into the atomic nucleus or spin you out on a light-year trip through the galaxies, how on earth would you describe what you saw when you got back, breathless, to…

Eh this sounds like exactly what was wrong with the early LSD promoters. Psychedelics are the mythical "love bomb"? I do not think the evidence supports that. While I think the world would be far better off if everyone had tried it, I don't think it'd stop wars or anything. At best, it might get people to sit up and think a bit, and turn to rationality for explanations. But in real life, seeing as how one's predispos…

I tripped with a few buddies I haven't seen in years. I'm happily tripping and my friend tries getting all deep on me. When I didn't engage his silly questions, he felt I wasn't on his level and that he really did have all the answers. It was hilarious and sad at the same time.

Re: Psychedelics Could Trigger A 'Paradigm Shift' In Mental Health Care

#78

Post by xacaxulu »

This is strong medicine, but the reports around ayahuasca, ibogaine, psilocybin, DMT and peyote all indicate the possibility of deep and lasting positive psychological shifts. I'd personally submit to treatment in the safety of a psych/medical clinic rather than a secret Peruvian yoga retreat but the fact that so many centers are popping up indicates some kind of global hive-mind desire for change. I'm supremely interested in the official and unofficial studies taking place all over the world right now in these domains.

Re: Psychedelics Could Trigger A 'Paradigm Shift' In Mental Health Care

#79

Post by [deleted] »

WorldWideWayne wrote: post #72
exodust wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"And they could, in theory, cure cancer...." Did you really just say that? Cancer of the liver; cancer of the rectum; cancer of the [insert body part], has nothing to do with the actions that psychedelics have on your body. Psychedelics are for the brain and mind, not the abnormal cells attacking your rectum. The only mention of cancer in the article is treating cancer related anxiety. Getting high and curing cancer…

I'm not defending the GP's statement about curing cancer, but could you explain your position that "things that affect the brain/mind" cannot affect "insert body part"? How do you know that? Are you saying that the brain/mind have no effect on the body? Please point to the scientific research that states that psychedelics definitely do not affect your rectum. At that point, your statement will be more valuable to me…

[deleted]

Re: Psychedelics Could Trigger A 'Paradigm Shift' In Mental Health Care

#80

Post by gonehome »

WorldWideWayne wrote: post #72
exodust wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"And they could, in theory, cure cancer...." Did you really just say that? Cancer of the liver; cancer of the rectum; cancer of the [insert body part], has nothing to do with the actions that psychedelics have on your body. Psychedelics are for the brain and mind, not the abnormal cells attacking your rectum. The only mention of cancer in the article is treating cancer related anxiety. Getting high and curing cancer…

I'm not defending the GP's statement about curing cancer, but could you explain your position that "things that affect the brain/mind" cannot affect "insert body part"? How do you know that? Are you saying that the brain/mind have no effect on the body? Please point to the scientific research that states that psychedelics definitely do not affect your rectum. At that point, your statement will be more valuable to me…

> Please point to the scientific research that states that psychedelics definitely do not affect your rectum.

Proving a negative isn't typically the best scientific approach. It'd be on the person making the dramatic claims to offer evidence. There's a lot of evidence about how cancer cells work and little (if any) gives reason to suspect some sort of conscious connection would affect it.

Though I think there is some data that people are more likely to recover if they feel more confident or at least not hopeless, but can't remember where I read about that. There was also something recently about an unexpected immune 'tube' to the brain or something and I think there's a positive correlation with being happy and getting sick less often. All this is still a pretty far cry from claiming that psychedelics are likely to cure cancer.

Stating that the negative can't be proven either does not make both arguments equivalent.

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