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Psychedelics Could Trigger A 'Paradigm Shift' In Mental Health Care

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Re: Psychedelics Could Trigger A 'Paradigm Shift' In Mental Health Care

#21

Post by MichaelGG »

codeshaman wrote: post #6

They can trigger a paradigm shift in many other areas, not just mental health care. Except it's so hard to explain this to a 'normal' person, who's never taken any. "If God were to permit you a brief voyage into the divine process, let you whirl for a second into the atomic nucleus or spin you out on a light-year trip through the galaxies, how on earth would you describe what you saw when you got back, breathless, to…

Eh this sounds like exactly what was wrong with the early LSD promoters. Psychedelics are the mythical "love bomb"? I do not think the evidence supports that. While I think the world would be far better off if everyone had tried it, I don't think it'd stop wars or anything. At best, it might get people to sit up and think a bit, and turn to rationality for explanations.

But in real life, seeing as how one's predispositions get highlighted with acid, we'd probably end up with a lot of people thinking they now know the answers. Or that their trip showed them that (Allah|Zeus|Quantum Democracy|Whatever) is the True God and go all nuts on that.

Leary and others made up these unsubstantiated claims about the effects of acid and really tried to sell it as something beyond what it is. It's a damn awesome molecule that does really nifty shit to brains, and certainly bears plenty of research and use.

But to say it can cure cancer? Come the fuck on man. That's just new-age heebie jeebie nonsense with no basis in reality. It's why a lot of pro-LSD people are simply not taken seriously, because they forget it's just a molecule messing with brains' perceptions.

(Unless you meant cure cancer in the "well it made you feel better, and feeling good is important to health so it might give you a better chance against some diseases", in which case it's not much of a claim and certainly shouldn't be phrased that way. Hey, Apple products can prevent street crime, because the metal bodies might slow down bullets and make an otherwise fatal shot survivable!)

Re: Psychedelics Could Trigger A 'Paradigm Shift' In Mental Health Care

#22

Post by chippy »

throwupaway1138 wrote: post #20
akjetma wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Triggering psychosis != causing longterm mental illness. I think parties on both sides of the debate over the safety of psychedelics would agree that they can and often do trigger psychosis. And both parties probably agree, at this point, that they do not cause mental illness.

How is psychosis not mental illness? You are splitting hairs.

I think the key word was "longterm" with the assumption that psychois is more associated with short term episodes.

Re: Psychedelics Could Trigger A 'Paradigm Shift' In Mental Health Care

#23

Post by Litost »

Pretty tangential, and i've no idea yet as to it's accuracy, but i loved the idea that the human race's "emergence into consciousness was triggered by our ancestors encounters with visionary plants". From an ironically, as otherwise i probably wouldn't have stumbled on it, Ted Talk by Graham Hancock:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0c5nIvJH7w

Out of interest, are there any other theories as to what might have caused this "leap"?

Re: Psychedelics Could Trigger A 'Paradigm Shift' In Mental Health Care

#24

Post by superplussed »

Litost wrote: post #23

Pretty tangential, and i've no idea yet as to it's accuracy, but i loved the idea that the human race's "emergence into consciousness was triggered by our ancestors encounters with visionary plants". From an ironically, as otherwise i probably wouldn't have stumbled on it, Ted Talk by Graham Hancock: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0c5nIvJH7w Out of interest, are there any other theories as to what might have caused…

This is known as the "Stoned Ape Theory" and was (to my knowledge) first popularized by Terrence McKenna.

http://www.lycaeum.org/~sputnik/McKenna/Evolution/

From the link above:

McKenna theorizes that as the North African jungles receded toward the end of the most recent ice age, giving way to grasslands, a branch of our tree-dwelling primate ancestors left the branches and took up a life out in the open -- following around herds of ungulates, nibbling what they could along the way.

Among the new items in their diet were psilocybin-containing mushrooms growing in the dung of these ungulate herds. The changes caused by the introduction of this drug to the primate diet were many -- McKenna theorizes, for instance, that synesthesia (the blurring of boundaries between the senses) caused by psilocybin led to the development of spoken language: the ability to form pictures in another person's mind through the use of vocal sounds.

Re: Psychedelics Could Trigger A 'Paradigm Shift' In Mental Health Care

#25

Post by throwupaway1138 »

chippy wrote: post #22
throwupaway1138 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is psychosis not mental illness? You are splitting hairs.

I think the key word was "longterm" with the assumption that psychois is more associated with short term episodes.

Yes, but the dividing criteria is completely arbitrary. The medical term would be chronic. To me psychosis means a form of mental illness, so it looks like the GP doesn't have a clue.

Re: Psychedelics Could Trigger A 'Paradigm Shift' In Mental Health Care

#26

Post by Synaesthesia »

MichaelGG wrote: post #21
codeshaman wrote: post #6

They can trigger a paradigm shift in many other areas, not just mental health care. Except it's so hard to explain this to a 'normal' person, who's never taken any. "If God were to permit you a brief voyage into the divine process, let you whirl for a second into the atomic nucleus or spin you out on a light-year trip through the galaxies, how on earth would you describe what you saw when you got back, breathless, to…

Eh this sounds like exactly what was wrong with the early LSD promoters. Psychedelics are the mythical "love bomb"? I do not think the evidence supports that. While I think the world would be far better off if everyone had tried it, I don't think it'd stop wars or anything. At best, it might get people to sit up and think a bit, and turn to rationality for explanations. But in real life, seeing as how one's predispos…

I think there is definitely some promising legitimate cancer therapy with cannabis. Although I agree with you in general. If you have experienced the effects of MDMA or LSD it's not too far fetched to say that it really can promote world peace.

Re: Psychedelics Could Trigger A 'Paradigm Shift' In Mental Health Care

#29

Post by [deleted] »

codeshaman wrote: post #6

They can trigger a paradigm shift in many other areas, not just mental health care. Except it's so hard to explain this to a 'normal' person, who's never taken any. "If God were to permit you a brief voyage into the divine process, let you whirl for a second into the atomic nucleus or spin you out on a light-year trip through the galaxies, how on earth would you describe what you saw when you got back, breathless, to…

[deleted]

Re: Psychedelics Could Trigger A 'Paradigm Shift' In Mental Health Care

#30

Post by kaffeemitsahne »

DennisP wrote: post #27
max-a wrote: post #3

Psychedelics can trigger psychosis too.

The interviewee acknowledged that, and said people with predispositions to it should not take these therapies. They have reliable screening tests.

How do they work, and how reliable? Seems like a pretty difficult thing to determine which healthy people are predisposed to mental ilness and which aren't.
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