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The Final Leaked TPP Text Is All That We Feared

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Re: The Final Leaked TPP Text Is All That We Feared

#111

Post by briandear »

oldmanjay wrote: post #3

I still feel strongly that disrupting the flow of free entertainment is the one thing that will actually get people up and protesting. Rights and freedoms stripped away with regularity have minimal impact, but SOPA got the world riled up in fear that torrenting the next season of Game of Thrones was about to get mildly more difficult. I suspect something similar will happen here.

Just curious; how does Game of Thrones make money? Do they get paid when their content is shared on torrents? If they don't, then why would they continue to produce the show if they aren't getting paid? I fail to understand how stealing content is a "good" thing. It seems no different that sneaking into the theater without buying a ticket.

Re: The Final Leaked TPP Text Is All That We Feared

#112

Post by molmalo »

smtddr wrote: post #23
oldmanjay wrote: post #3

I still feel strongly that disrupting the flow of free entertainment is the one thing that will actually get people up and protesting. Rights and freedoms stripped away with regularity have minimal impact, but SOPA got the world riled up in fear that torrenting the next season of Game of Thrones was about to get mildly more difficult. I suspect something similar will happen here.

Maybe... should have seen what happened when wikipedia disappeared for a day: http://laughingsquid.com/herpderpedia-a-collection-of-tweets...

Just imagine for a second what would happen if Facebook did the same for a day...

Yeah, I know, I know, it's a corporation, It would loose lots of money by going down for a whole day, and it's shareholders would be very angry. It's not going to happen.

But if for some strange reason it did happen... that would call the attention of LOTS of people.

Re: The Final Leaked TPP Text Is All That We Feared

#113

Post by mirimir »

SwellJoe wrote: post #105

The thing I find most galling about this is not merely what it contains. It is an awful document, with horrible policy, yes. But, what is most disgusting is that we had to learn of how bad it is from leaked documents . The leadership in many nations (not just in one nation, this is effectively a conspiracy at the highest levels of several nations, most egregiously the US) supported the TPP, lobbied for the TPP on beh…

Only one quibble. In large part, multinationals also wrote it.

Re: The Final Leaked TPP Text Is All That We Feared

#114

Post by mkhpalm »

It seems like all these types of things are written up in secrecy these days. When they can't do that, the other tactic is make it thousands of pages long so nobody finds the nefarious nuggets hidden within. I've completely lost faith that the federal government is for the people, by the people. It seems to be centered around individuals these days.

Re: The Final Leaked TPP Text Is All That We Feared

#115

Post by PhasmaFelis »

EdSharkey wrote: post #66
jacobolus wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Jade Helm scare-o-tron rollout was completely botched and scrapped as far as I can tell. Can you explain what you mean? As far as I can tell Jade Helm was a fairly routine military training exercise, which was latched onto by a group of conspiracy nuts. What’s a “scare-o-tron rollout”?

I personally draw a distinction between the gigantic-sized stuff the US federal government does (military and wars, fiscal and monetary policy, taxes, transfer payment programs) and the medium-sized stuff (HUD, EPA, FCC, etc.) The medium sized stuff can be steered by the adminstration in power. The people you elect can exert influence in those areas, I mean. But the huge stuff is out of their control. The military es…

> Just training for training's sake? That's nonsense.

I'm...seriously baffled as to what confusion of ideas would lead you to say something like this. Do you not know what the word "training" means?

Re: The Final Leaked TPP Text Is All That We Feared

#116

Post by laichzeit0 »

striking wrote: post #59
insanity55 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

go on...

It means people are so tired of listening to self-interested politicians toe the party line that they're willing to elect a candidate solely based on how crazy his ideas are and how much he won't backpedal on them, even in the face of adversity. In terms of fearless leaders, he definitely is one. Of course, I also think his ideas are mostly inane and that within fifteen minutes of his inauguration he would have alrea…

Excuse my ignorance as I'm not American and perhaps miss all the nuances.

- Wants to stop illegal immigration. Not immigration. Only illegal. i.e. people not paying taxes but living there undocumented

- Non-citizens giving birth in USA and then automatically the baby is USA's problem until it dies

- Tax reform that wants to stop corporate inversion and bring money back to USA (Google, Apple, etc.)

- Wants a more competitive health care system than Obamacare

- Wants USA to make better trade deals because there are crazy trade deficits.

Why are any of these ideas seen as being crazy by Americans?

Re: The Final Leaked TPP Text Is All That We Feared

#117

Post by rebootthesystem »

SwellJoe wrote: post #105

The thing I find most galling about this is not merely what it contains. It is an awful document, with horrible policy, yes. But, what is most disgusting is that we had to learn of how bad it is from leaked documents . The leadership in many nations (not just in one nation, this is effectively a conspiracy at the highest levels of several nations, most egregiously the US) supported the TPP, lobbied for the TPP on beh…

Maybe next time people will figure out when they are being lied to:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CU0m6Rxm9vU

Re: The Final Leaked TPP Text Is All That We Feared

#118

Post by EdSharkey »

PhasmaFelis wrote: post #115
EdSharkey wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I personally draw a distinction between the gigantic-sized stuff the US federal government does (military and wars, fiscal and monetary policy, taxes, transfer payment programs) and the medium-sized stuff (HUD, EPA, FCC, etc.) The medium sized stuff can be steered by the adminstration in power. The people you elect can exert influence in those areas, I mean. But the huge stuff is out of their control. The military es…

> Just training for training's sake? That's nonsense. I'm...seriously baffled as to what confusion of ideas would lead you to say something like this. Do you not know what the word "training" means?

You're right, that's not a complete thought.

"Does the need to train troops for urban combat provide enough justification for the military to conduct realistic exercises in actual US cities?" is how I wish I had written that.

Re: The Final Leaked TPP Text Is All That We Feared

#119

Post by tomp »

briandear wrote: post #111
oldmanjay wrote: post #3

I still feel strongly that disrupting the flow of free entertainment is the one thing that will actually get people up and protesting. Rights and freedoms stripped away with regularity have minimal impact, but SOPA got the world riled up in fear that torrenting the next season of Game of Thrones was about to get mildly more difficult. I suspect something similar will happen here.

Just curious; how does Game of Thrones make money? Do they get paid when their content is shared on torrents? If they don't, then why would they continue to produce the show if they aren't getting paid? I fail to understand how stealing content is a "good" thing. It seems no different that sneaking into the theater without buying a ticket.

It's produced by HBO and has incredibly high viewership, so I imagine it's paid by (1) the increase in HBO subscribers, (2) other networks that want to run it, and (3) advertising run during the show.

Stealing content is good because otherwise, the content isn't available. I'm pretty sure that in countries like Poland or Slovenia, shows like Game of Thrones arrive with a substantial delay, if at all.

Plus, requiring the people to subscribe to the whole of HBO and dozens of shitty shows just to see Game of Thrones is essentially an abuse of the market, like a monopoly (which copyright always is).

Re: The Final Leaked TPP Text Is All That We Feared

#120

Post by azernik »

EdSharkey wrote: post #93
dtroja wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With respect, I understand many people viewed that one training event with skepticism. I'm not going to try and change your mind. I would, however, like to address the idea that "training for training's sake" has no value. Tough, frequent, realistic training is exactly what is required to keep certain parts of the military prepared. I'm not talking about logisticians or acquisitions types. Personnel turnover is a pro…

I agree with everything you've said except the last paragraph. Training the troops is important! Too bad the knuckleheads in power did nothing to explain or justify the size/scope/location of the exercise, maybe it would have been worthwhile. Sounds like you think it would have been okay though. Want to sell me on rolling tanks, helicopters, and troops through town? Can they fire their guns and cannons (with blanks)?…

These are all things that actual militaries do for exercises. In fact, under certain conditions they'll fire their weapons a LOT without blanks (live-fire exercises).
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