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The Final Leaked TPP Text Is All That We Feared

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Re: The Final Leaked TPP Text Is All That We Feared

#61

Post by striking »

NhanH wrote: post #58
striking wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or Bernie Sanders. They're both creative individuals that are willing to buck the trend and change things in the way they think is right rather than toeing the party line.

No they are not: http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/stop-comparing-donald-tr... Notably #6 in the article.

So Sanders gets less attention and is campaigning based on the facts rather than his personality.

But although he tends to vote the same as many other Democrats, he is very dangerous to moneyed interests in politics. No one's bothered to fix that for a long time.

Re: The Final Leaked TPP Text Is All That We Feared

#62

Post by vezzy-fnord »

insanity55 wrote: post #55
vezzy-fnord wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that Donald Trump is being seriously considered for president should tell you that the nation state is dead. It doesn't tell me that at all.

go on...

See Jon Gnarr, who started an openly satirical joke political party in Iceland called the Best Party, but actually ended up winning the mayoral post of Reykjavik. At which point the Best Party became a serious effort.

Nation state fully intact. Donald Trump is far less dramatic and just another cookie cutter populist.

Re: The Final Leaked TPP Text Is All That We Feared

#63

Post by ddingus »

EdSharkey wrote: post #37

To me, code is much more of a long term threat to the power structure than intellectual property theft is. I'm wondering how long before we have government-sanctioned libraries, languages, and chipsets that we may develop for. I see this TPP as power consolidating ahead of any looming citizen revolt in order to chop it off at the knees. It's very weird and awesome to watch. I do chuckle about all this though because…

>>>I'm wondering how long before we have government-sanctioned libraries, languages, and chipsets that we may develop for.

"You there! STOP!"

"Huh?"

"We've got you on record for bootstrapping, machine code, and compiler writing!"

"so?"

"That's a threat, and you are going to have to come with us and register."

"Register for what?"

"As a weapon. We need to know where you are and who you associate with..."

Re: The Final Leaked TPP Text Is All That We Feared

#64

Post by yrro »

walterbell wrote: post #50
api wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see the TPP as part of the obsolescence of the nation state in favor of global corporate governance. The incompetence you mention fits in with this-- those boobs are just leftovers from the old system. The fact that Donald Trump is being seriously considered for president should tell you that the nation state is dead. Not saying this is a good thing. Read any 80s cyberpunk novel to see what's coming. William Gibson…

Corporate lawsuits against governments at the World Bank (ISDS) can offer data on the balance of power between states and corporations. See this Aussie explainer video, in the style of the Daily Show: https://youtube.com/watch?v=M4-mlGRPmkU More at http://www.isdscorporateattacks.org & https://icsid.worldbank.org Water: Azurix v. Argentina Investor win (awarded $165 million plus interest) Ban of toxic fuel additive:…

This is incredible. Reading the details of the cases listed on that site makes me feel sick. And there is absolutely nothing I can do about it.

Re: The Final Leaked TPP Text Is All That We Feared

#65

Post by walterbell »

yrro wrote: post #64
walterbell wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Corporate lawsuits against governments at the World Bank (ISDS) can offer data on the balance of power between states and corporations. See this Aussie explainer video, in the style of the Daily Show: https://youtube.com/watch?v=M4-mlGRPmkU More at http://www.isdscorporateattacks.org & https://icsid.worldbank.org Water: Azurix v. Argentina Investor win (awarded $165 million plus interest) Ban of toxic fuel additive:…

This is incredible. Reading the details of the cases listed on that site makes me feel sick. And there is absolutely nothing I can do about it.

Those pre-TPP cases are nothing compared to the future combined scope of TPP (Pacific), TTIP (Europe) and RCEP (China, Korea, India, and other Asian countries).

Never say there is nothing you can do. Tell other people about ISDS. Share the videos [1][2][3][4].

Jon Oliver's video [4] about the Philip Morris tobacco ISDS lawsuit against Australia (for brown paper packaging) caused such an outcry that TPP negotiators were forced to exclude the entire tobacco industry from ISDS. This is the first time such an industry-specific carve-out has appeared in a trade agreement.

[1] https://youtube.com/watch?v=M9ZFDpuiFUs

[2] https://youtube.com/watch?v=M4-mlGRPmkU

[3] https://youtube.com/watch?v=AABOIcXZZwg

[4] https://youtube.com/watch?v=6UsHHOCH4q8

Re: The Final Leaked TPP Text Is All That We Feared

#66

Post by EdSharkey »

jacobolus wrote: post #44
EdSharkey wrote: post #37

To me, code is much more of a long term threat to the power structure than intellectual property theft is. I'm wondering how long before we have government-sanctioned libraries, languages, and chipsets that we may develop for. I see this TPP as power consolidating ahead of any looming citizen revolt in order to chop it off at the knees. It's very weird and awesome to watch. I do chuckle about all this though because…

> The Jade Helm scare-o-tron rollout was completely botched and scrapped as far as I can tell. Can you explain what you mean? As far as I can tell Jade Helm was a fairly routine military training exercise, which was latched onto by a group of conspiracy nuts. What’s a “scare-o-tron rollout”?

I personally draw a distinction between the gigantic-sized stuff the US federal government does (military and wars, fiscal and monetary policy, taxes, transfer payment programs) and the medium-sized stuff (HUD, EPA, FCC, etc.)

The medium sized stuff can be steered by the adminstration in power. The people you elect can exert influence in those areas, I mean.

But the huge stuff is out of their control. The military especially is very interesting to me because no war just happens spontaneously. It's all got to be planned years in advance. In that context, where does a Jade Helm fit in?

Anyhow, regardless of what you think of the loudmouths regarding Jade Helm, that campaign was certainly odd in its conception both in terms of size and setting.

What possible valid reason would the US military have for doing large scale trainings in US urban settings? I don't mean that question in a conspiracy sense. I mean, logically speaking, why? The military has the tactics and hardware to engage in urban settings down pat. Just training for training's sake? That's nonsense.

I'll leave the speculation as to the "real" motives for Jade Helm to the more frothy-mouthed. What I know after-the-fact was there was an odd/confusing move by the military, followed by a terrible sales job by the stuffed shirts in power that led inevitably to a failed/cancelled campaign. It reinforces my point that the power structure seems to be creaking here.

Re: The Final Leaked TPP Text Is All That We Feared

#67

Post by yarrel »

Asbostos wrote: post #34

Weren't there also thousands of tariffs removed? The economic advantages of that might outweigh any loses from tighter copyright, and I suspect was the carrot the US used to get all the copyright concessions. Everyone wants to export to the US but the US is traditionally too protectionist. Looking on the bright side of copyright. You never have to use somebody else's copyright work. You can always just make your own…

> You never have to use somebody else's copyright work.

You do however have to suffer the consequences of being falsely accused of doing so.

And if you want to use your own copyrighted work it helps if there are platforms to support you in doing so that aren't either locked down by the incumbents or passing on the eye-watering costs of compliance to you.

As for Free Software, forcing it to comply with censorship is trying to square a circle and is going to either criminalize or neuter it. You can always make your own, but you'll be breaking the law if you install it on your router or your tablet.

What bright side?

Re: The Final Leaked TPP Text Is All That We Feared

#68

Post by bandrami »

walterbell wrote: post #50
api wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see the TPP as part of the obsolescence of the nation state in favor of global corporate governance. The incompetence you mention fits in with this-- those boobs are just leftovers from the old system. The fact that Donald Trump is being seriously considered for president should tell you that the nation state is dead. Not saying this is a good thing. Read any 80s cyberpunk novel to see what's coming. William Gibson…

Corporate lawsuits against governments at the World Bank (ISDS) can offer data on the balance of power between states and corporations. See this Aussie explainer video, in the style of the Daily Show: https://youtube.com/watch?v=M4-mlGRPmkU More at http://www.isdscorporateattacks.org & https://icsid.worldbank.org Water: Azurix v. Argentina Investor win (awarded $165 million plus interest) Ban of toxic fuel additive:…

I don't know about the rest, but Mexico won the Metalclad case; there's still no toxic waste dump there. Mexico had to pay for the stuff they told Metalclad to build while knowing all along they were going to deny the dump.

Re: The Final Leaked TPP Text Is All That We Feared

#69

Post by edc117 »

bluehazed wrote: post #15
nostromo wrote: post #11

I think the EFF is being a bit hyperbolic here. This is certainly not all that we feared. TPP actually seems fairly banal from a U.S. perspective, in part because so much of what is listed here directly mirrors U.S. law. (Laws like the length of copyright and the DMCA.) From the issues listed, I don't see how life will change online after TPP for U.S. citizens in any major way. This seems positively mild compared to…

As a Canadian, this terrifies me. I don't want US style copyright law here. Just because the US has it, doesn't mean the rest of the world wants it (or isn't a big deal if it's implemented)

Make some noise with your politicians, educate your neighbors, start alerting others. US here and I'll be doing what I can.

Re: The Final Leaked TPP Text Is All That We Feared

#70

Post by walterbell »

bediger4000 wrote: post #30
jsprogrammer wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are only stakeholders through imposition of laws such as those proposed. A more likely future is that most content will be new and not controlled by MPAA or RIAA. These legacy content holders will fade from relevance as their content is duplicated beyond their control and, even more importantly, rarely ever accessed.

I like your optimism, bully for you, and that's a great idea. But I fear that the ISP/"rightsholder" conglomerates, like Comcast/NBC, will only let very select, RIAA and MPAA owned content through.

There's a Reddit thread about possible TPP censorship which describes a variety of techniques for influencing the visibility of posts, https://www.reddit.com/r/undelete/comments/3azxth/are_reddit...
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