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The Final Leaked TPP Text Is All That We Feared

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Re: The Final Leaked TPP Text Is All That We Feared

#21

Post by namlem »

nostromo wrote: post #17
bluehazed wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Canadian, this terrifies me. I don't want US style copyright law here. Just because the US has it, doesn't mean the rest of the world wants it (or isn't a big deal if it's implemented)

I feel you, dude. I don't like many of our laws either. I'm simply pointing out that from a U.S. perspective this seems similar to the status-quo. I agree that internationally these proposals may be much scarier.

Yes, but once our laws become codified in an international treaty, it greatly reduces the possibility of liberalization in the future.

Re: The Final Leaked TPP Text Is All That We Feared

#23

Post by smtddr »

oldmanjay wrote: post #3

I still feel strongly that disrupting the flow of free entertainment is the one thing that will actually get people up and protesting. Rights and freedoms stripped away with regularity have minimal impact, but SOPA got the world riled up in fear that torrenting the next season of Game of Thrones was about to get mildly more difficult. I suspect something similar will happen here.

Maybe... should have seen what happened when wikipedia disappeared for a day: http://laughingsquid.com/herpderpedia-a-collection-of-tweets...

Re: The Final Leaked TPP Text Is All That We Feared

#24

Post by bediger4000 »

nostromo wrote: post #11

I think the EFF is being a bit hyperbolic here. This is certainly not all that we feared. TPP actually seems fairly banal from a U.S. perspective, in part because so much of what is listed here directly mirrors U.S. law. (Laws like the length of copyright and the DMCA.) From the issues listed, I don't see how life will change online after TPP for U.S. citizens in any major way. This seems positively mild compared to…

While the TPP "IP" provisions might be banal, mirroring current USA law, the problem with the TPP is that its for all intents and purposes, a treaty. The citizens of the USA can't up and decide that allowing DRM circumvention is a good idea and we should now allow it: that would break international law. The citizens of the USA can't decide to shorten copyright length for fast-moving areas (computer science) because that would break international law.

The TPP enshrines poorly chosen implementations, just as the Berne Convention has enshrined poorly chosen implementations.

Re: The Final Leaked TPP Text Is All That We Feared

#25

Post by mistercow »

adventured wrote: post #19
3pt14159 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well the studios will obviously pressure content sites to include a dispute process, otherwise trolls from 4chan will issue DMCA takedowns right back at them.

They'll make fraudulent take-down notices a serious crime, and make a few high profile examples. That'll stop the vast majority of it (more sophisticated people will continue the trolling). Studios might also choose to push for an authenticated scheme instead. Their account gets certified (eg on YouTube), and content on that certified account becomes exempted. There are relatively few hollywood houses that would need…

> They'll make fraudulent take-down notices a serious crime

IIRC this is already the case with the DMCA. I'm pretty sure you have to affirm under penalty of perjury that your claim is in good faith.

Re: The Final Leaked TPP Text Is All That We Feared

#26

Post by 3pt14159 »

adventured wrote: post #19
3pt14159 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well the studios will obviously pressure content sites to include a dispute process, otherwise trolls from 4chan will issue DMCA takedowns right back at them.

They'll make fraudulent take-down notices a serious crime, and make a few high profile examples. That'll stop the vast majority of it (more sophisticated people will continue the trolling). Studios might also choose to push for an authenticated scheme instead. Their account gets certified (eg on YouTube), and content on that certified account becomes exempted. There are relatively few hollywood houses that would need…

I agree that there might be a certification process, but on the issue of false takedowns leading to jail time I disagree with you. Think about it from the studio's perspective: If they do a single fraudulent take-down the fees wouldn't be worth the other 999 legitimate ones.

DCMA works because it is fast, but fast needs a safety valve. Without that it will get thrown out in court.

Re: The Final Leaked TPP Text Is All That We Feared

#27

Post by jsprogrammer »

bediger4000 wrote: post #16
3pt14159 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well the studios will obviously pressure content sites to include a dispute process, otherwise trolls from 4chan will issue DMCA takedowns right back at them.

Please, give them ideas. False flag takedowns will probably be an issue for years, as the MPAA and RIAA will realize the consequences of a dispute process (they will loose on occasion). Or maybe "rightsholders" will get special privileges to issue takedowns and all other takedowns will go through an administrative review. Anyway, the point is that getting a dispute process in place will take years, and lots of abuse,…

They are only stakeholders through imposition of laws such as those proposed.

A more likely future is that most content will be new and not controlled by MPAA or RIAA. These legacy content holders will fade from relevance as their content is duplicated beyond their control and, even more importantly, rarely ever accessed.

Re: The Final Leaked TPP Text Is All That We Feared

#28

Post by 3pt14159 »

bediger4000 wrote: post #16
3pt14159 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well the studios will obviously pressure content sites to include a dispute process, otherwise trolls from 4chan will issue DMCA takedowns right back at them.

Please, give them ideas. False flag takedowns will probably be an issue for years, as the MPAA and RIAA will realize the consequences of a dispute process (they will loose on occasion). Or maybe "rightsholders" will get special privileges to issue takedowns and all other takedowns will go through an administrative review. Anyway, the point is that getting a dispute process in place will take years, and lots of abuse,…

But the fact of the matter is that every person is a rights holder. I'm a rights holder of this comment. You are a rights holder of your family pictures. It is a tricky balancing act.

Re: The Final Leaked TPP Text Is All That We Feared

#29

Post by bediger4000 »

3pt14159 wrote: post #28
bediger4000 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please, give them ideas. False flag takedowns will probably be an issue for years, as the MPAA and RIAA will realize the consequences of a dispute process (they will loose on occasion). Or maybe "rightsholders" will get special privileges to issue takedowns and all other takedowns will go through an administrative review. Anyway, the point is that getting a dispute process in place will take years, and lots of abuse,…

But the fact of the matter is that every person is a rights holder. I'm a rights holder of this comment. You are a rights holder of your family pictures. It is a tricky balancing act.

Sure, technically anyone who creates something in tangible form is a "rightsholder". But the process for enforcing those rights is beyond most of us US citizens, rather like disputing a patent lawsuit is beyond most small companies. The costs of specialist attorneys put the enforcement beyond reach for all but the rich and large corporations. You called out the problem yourself with the "tricky balancing act". Balancing will require lawsuits, and almost nobody has the money for a lawsuit. So "rightsholders" becomes another word for "wealthy and large corporations".

Re: The Final Leaked TPP Text Is All That We Feared

#30

Post by bediger4000 »

jsprogrammer wrote: post #27
bediger4000 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please, give them ideas. False flag takedowns will probably be an issue for years, as the MPAA and RIAA will realize the consequences of a dispute process (they will loose on occasion). Or maybe "rightsholders" will get special privileges to issue takedowns and all other takedowns will go through an administrative review. Anyway, the point is that getting a dispute process in place will take years, and lots of abuse,…

They are only stakeholders through imposition of laws such as those proposed. A more likely future is that most content will be new and not controlled by MPAA or RIAA. These legacy content holders will fade from relevance as their content is duplicated beyond their control and, even more importantly, rarely ever accessed.

I like your optimism, bully for you, and that's a great idea. But I fear that the ISP/"rightsholder" conglomerates, like Comcast/NBC, will only let very select, RIAA and MPAA owned content through.
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