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Mercury Spill

jefftk.com

181–190 of 374 posts

Re: Mercury Spill

#181
post #6

This does seem like a good case for small claims court against Honeywell. It's probably limited in what they could recover but they could at least get some of that back.

Why small claims court? Surely the payout for such a huge health risk would be significantly higher than small claims court could provide.

Re: Mercury Spill

#182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So if they're adjusting premiums such that they're net positive on every single account, does that mean they'll refund your money if you end the contract without ever having made a claim? No, because you're paying for the peace of mind that comes with knowing that your worst-case scenario has been mitigated, on the off-chance it happens . Even if there is no disaster, you still benefited from not having to worry ab…

Insurance rates usually go up after a claim even if it's obvious that the claim doesn't reflect a higher future risk, though.

It does, you have clearly shown yourself to be unlucky!

Re: Mercury Spill

#183

I had a physics class in a community college that had us handling open containers of mercury for our experiments. It was maybe 15 years ago. Someone in one of the classes managed to knock one of the jars over, and mercury spilled everywhere on the floor. Either the students hid their spill from the staff, or the staff just had some janitors do a simple sweeping of it, because I noticed spheres of mercury everywhere i…

[deleted]

Re: Mercury Spill

#184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a tough choice between being a scumbag and paying two years salary[1] out of pocket for something that was not your fault and that the insurance apparently doesn't cover because they are scumbags too. [1] The median wage in the US per person is $26,695.

I find the intuition that the insurers are scumbags interesting (not that I don't share it, on some level). After all, in this case they also didn't cause the problem, don't own the house, and never agreed to insure the homeowner against that kind of risk. What am I missing? Of course, its important to distinguish this situation from cases where the insurer did agree to cover it, but refuses to pay anyway.

The true villain in this story is the home inspector who was incompetent enough to miss a decommissioned upfeed hot-water heating system, a sure indicator of the presence of elemental mercury in the home.

Re: Mercury Spill

#185
post #78

A friend of mine has a "mercury blob maze" [1] where you have a little blob of mercury trapped in a plastic container and you have to get it through the maze - it was fun to use at different temperatures, as the blob would want to break apart when hot, or not move at all when cold. Shaking it turns it into 300 blobs. Upon seeing it, my science teacher dad had some cool stories about playing with Mercury 20-30 years a…

Our high school science teacher went to school in the late 1950s. He told us his science teacher used to demonstrate that you could plunge your hand into a container of mercury and swirl it around, just lovely stuff... until one day his gold wedding ring snapped in half, because the mercury had degraded it.

Re: Mercury Spill

#186
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This page describes that system, I think: http://www.oldhouseweb.com/how-to-advice/gravity-hot-water-h... (the "Honeywell Heat Generator")

I've now linked that from the article; thanks! (I read that page when I was first reading about this the night of the spill, but had forgotten about it. Holohan is amazingly knowledgeable about old heating systems.)

Did your home inspector note the upfeed system in the pre-purchase report? Did you sign a waiver limiting the inspector's liability?

Re: Mercury Spill

#187

Yikes. I'm glad my house was built in the 80's. No asbestos, no lead in the paint, no mercury hiding out in my ceiling. How dangerous was this contamination, though? I know mercury evaporates, and that it is an air quality concern, but given its location and assuming normal levels of indoor air movement, is it worth $50k to abate it? I tend to be skeptical of mold issues, for example, but I also imagine that mercury…

Oh in the 80s you say? Might want to check to see if you have polybutaline pipes in there. That's another one that's expensive to repair and not covered by insurance.

Ha, nope. Good old-fashioned copper throughout. It's a boring SoCal house. Stucco on slab with tile roof. I'm invincible against any issues (crosses fingers).

Re: Mercury Spill

#188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am pretty sure that insurance companies know this. I bet that they have data showing that, even in cases where it seems like the cause of a claim was outside a person's control, that person is still more likely to make a second claim than someone who has never made a claim.

I would think so too, but I would not be surprised if there is some sort of industry wide collusion to not try and change the situation. The key is separating out the risks that are truly higher from those that are not. If they are applying this as a blanket policy on all claimants it suggests that collusion is the culprit.

Or it suggests that the extra work needed to differentiate between the truly higher risks and those who are not is cost prohibitive. It may be more cost effective to just stick with the blanket policy.

Re: Mercury Spill

#189
post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Health insurance is somewhat the same too... Hospitals and Dentists have special rates for insured patients (much higher)... you can end up paying the same as an uninsured patient... Which is why I was getting hospitalization-only insurance, but with Obama-care, I can't do that anymore. Also, I have been told that it might be illegal to claim that you are uninsured, pay the bill and then get reimbursed by your insura…

> Health insurance is somewhat the same too... Hospitals and Dentists have special rates for insured patients (much higher)... you can end up paying the same as an uninsured patient... Health insurance is actually very different[0]. The flow of money with medical billing is really, really complicated, which is why we end up with a system that's so confusing that even most physicians and clinicians don't really unders…

That's interesting. You are forced to mention any health insurance you might have?

Re: Mercury Spill

#190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would think so too, but I would not be surprised if there is some sort of industry wide collusion to not try and change the situation. The key is separating out the risks that are truly higher from those that are not. If they are applying this as a blanket policy on all claimants it suggests that collusion is the culprit.

Or it suggests that the extra work needed to differentiate between the truly higher risks and those who are not is cost prohibitive. It may be more cost effective to just stick with the blanket policy.

Given how easy it would be to data mine this out of the claim history I find this explanation hard to buy. There must be a whole set of specific claim types that show no correlation with future claims. If you can’t find these in your data you are not looking very hard.

Of course if no one else is looking why give up the easy money - after all it is not like the customer can buy a new policy without the massive markup. Collusion does not need to be explicit, it can be accomplished just through everyone using the same systems and rules.

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