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Seattle, in Midst of Tech Boom, Tries to Keep Its Soul

nytimes.com

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Re: Seattle, in Midst of Tech Boom, Tries to Keep Its Soul

#141

Post by justizin »

mattress wrote: post #9

Took a job in Bellevue in April and moved from Philadelphia to Seattle. So far it's a been an interesting experience. I've encountered many people hostile to software engineers in general. A bunch of people immediately ask if I work for Amazon with a hint of disdain after I state my occupation. So it hasn't felt super welcoming so far. I get it, even in some neighborhoods in Philadelphia the same thing is happening.…

> A bunch of people immediately ask if I work for Amazon with a hint of disdain after I state my occupation. So it hasn't felt super welcoming so far.

I moved to San Francisco ten years ago with $700 in my pocket, to stay with a relative, who kicked me out pretty soon because, well, having an adult man stay in your guest room when you are accustomed to pre-teen daughters, even if you really direct your misplaced desire for a son at your broke ass nephew, is hard.

I lived for years under the poverty line and basically today, when I meet someone in person, this is exactly my experience.

First, some advice I have a hard time taking: Don't let it get to you.

Second, get involved with your community. When you detect this disdain, tell people (and mean it, and research why you should), that you are concerned about what is happening to the community and that you are rightfully afraid of the things that you admire in the community being driven out.

Find ways to help.

I'm sorry, software is not eating the world, Marc Andreesen's brain is eating his soul, there can be utility and benefit to what we do, but working folks who use their hands and muscles and mouths for a living in ways we likely can't imagine are rightly upset about being pushed out.

I fucking promise you do not want to be in a city or neighborhood ruled by tech folks. People who moved to SF in the past few years are already facing their rents doubling.

You want to know what it's like to live on a third of the salary you make? Start paying exorbitant rent. [I can hear you saying that you already are, wait until it doubles. My rent is currently 5x the inflated mortgage of the house I grew up in.]

Who the fuck is Owen?

Re: Seattle, in Midst of Tech Boom, Tries to Keep Its Soul

#142

Post by steve-howard »

pera wrote: post #71
wfo wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seattle has never been particularly welcoming to newcomers; people there tend to be insular and it can be hard to make friends if you don't already know people (even before the amazon/tech stuff -- plenty of articles about 'the seattle freeze' that predate it). Being from there helps. Not being in tech helps -- there are so many new software engineers meeting one just isn't very interesting. You can hardly blame peop…

I keep reading all these scary stories about how unwelcoming people from Seattle is; I moved here back in February and my experience until now have been completely the opposite: almost every Seattleite I meet is super friendly and talkative, at the point that it feels almost like being in a small town. Maybe I am just lucky? but I think Seattle is one of the coolest cities in the US, except of course for the traffic.

I think it depends greatly on your personality, how you spend your free time, what part of the city you're in, and how your first few experiences shapes you perception.

I find Seattle to be unwelcoming, personally, but it's not that people aren't friendly when you can get them to talk. It's the pervasive avoidance of eye contact and general desire not to engage with strangers that can make it a lonely place.

Re: Seattle, in Midst of Tech Boom, Tries to Keep Its Soul

#143

Post by thieving_magpie »

devindotcom wrote: post #98
thieving_magpie wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I'm not all that concerned with making friends with people that are hostile about my profession. That's so petty. >partly because the countless new techbros with no respect for Seattle culture who spend 11hrs/day at work and don't have time to develop a personality romping around town give it a real bad reputation What does that even mean? I hear this all the time and I honestly have no idea how to "respect Sea…

I'm glad you're having a good time, but people in central Seattle are sensitive to the fact that the neighborhood that has been a cradle for so much culture is being made into the party district for nearby corporate villages - Amazon being the biggest offender. I have plenty of friends who've worked there (though many leave because it's so horrible) and plenty of friends in tech. It's not the profession, it's the peo…

Well I'm new to the city and I'd feel like it would be plainly disingenuous of me to pretend I know what's going on. I'm here to support my family, learn, and experience this incredible area. I'm aware of the arguments in the culture battle and I am, of course, against gentrification and the loss of cultural identity. I will vote accordingly to try and fight that. However, I have a similar attitude as you (and the 'we' you're referring to) - I don't want or need your approval.

And it bears repeating, I haven't experienced any of this at all. I have only encountered nice people.

Re: Seattle, in Midst of Tech Boom, Tries to Keep Its Soul

#144

Post by cossatot »

mattress wrote: post #9

Took a job in Bellevue in April and moved from Philadelphia to Seattle. So far it's a been an interesting experience. I've encountered many people hostile to software engineers in general. A bunch of people immediately ask if I work for Amazon with a hint of disdain after I state my occupation. So it hasn't felt super welcoming so far. I get it, even in some neighborhoods in Philadelphia the same thing is happening.…

I moved here a year ago and have found it to be extremely welcoming. But I'm in science, not tech qua tech. I have made most of my new friends through outdoors, particularly whitewater kayaking. The whitewater community here is vibrant and much preferable to other whitewater hotspots because there are few lifestyle/dudebro boaters and lots of people have interesting jobs or other hobbies and are smart and conversant. I'm also married which is better--I definitely wouldn't want to date here, although there seem to be a lot of girls in science and the outdoors.

I will have to say, though, that as much as I love it here, I definitely don't see it as a particularly soulful city. But I'm from the Ozarks, which while not really diverse still has a lot of music and art. Especially the music: People literally sit on their porches playing music, and you can come up and join them, chat them up, whatever. The boundary between music producer and consumer in the Ozarks/South is a wide spectrum with most people somewhere on it, instead of it being a hard line with most squarely on the consumer side (as in Seattle, supposedly a musical place).

But there are still fun, artsy and 'gritty' events in Seattle. The Fremont Soltice festival/ naked bike ride was super fun to ride in. The Deadbaby Downhill in Georgetown was crazy. But no one will mistake it for New Orleans...

Re: Seattle, in Midst of Tech Boom, Tries to Keep Its Soul

#145

Post by steve-howard »

theophrastus wrote: post #27
mattress wrote: post #9

Took a job in Bellevue in April and moved from Philadelphia to Seattle. So far it's a been an interesting experience. I've encountered many people hostile to software engineers in general. A bunch of people immediately ask if I work for Amazon with a hint of disdain after I state my occupation. So it hasn't felt super welcoming so far. I get it, even in some neighborhoods in Philadelphia the same thing is happening.…

A brief elaboration on "many people hostile to software engineers in general": the major source of this are the employers who have done a deal with the apartment owners to all but exclude anyone who doesn't work in the tech industry. The apartment owner simply doesn't rent to anyone who doesn't work for Amazon, Microsoft etc[1]. This makes people grumpy at the folks who apparently do the deal with the devil for this…

The only break I ever got from one of these programs (I work at Microsoft) was that of the various payments required on move-in (fee, refundable deposit, first month's rent) I was exempted from the refundable deposit. I didn't really get why that was the case, because I was still liable for damages, but I'm surprised that there are more aggressive versions of this and I'd agree that even the break I got wasn't really deserved.

Re: Seattle, in Midst of Tech Boom, Tries to Keep Its Soul

#146

Post by gaius »

bluedino wrote: post #103

>> John Criscitello placed posters in Seattle's Capitol Hill neighborhood proclaiming “Welcome! Rich Kids,” and “Wish you weren’t here.” Don't hate them, cash in on them. Start a high-end or artistically product and sell to the 'rich kids'.

Exactly as Banksy has done in London

Re: Seattle, in Midst of Tech Boom, Tries to Keep Its Soul

#147

Post by acchow »

devindotcom wrote: post #88
pazrul wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This guy is a terrible hypocrite; he creates art bemoaning new people in his neighborhood, while being a recent transplant from New York himself. He's cashing in on the worst kind of 'us vs them' mentality. Some people make excuses that he's only rallying against the stereotypical brogrammer, but I don't think that's true. He's really against anyone being in his neighborhood he didn't personally approve of. He's the…

I think "terrible hypocrite" is a major overstatement. The guy is a gay artist who moved to an area built and populated largely by the gay and creative community, only to find it in the process of being colonized by moneyed interests and neighborhood tourists. He identified with the original neighborhood profile strongly and strongly rejects the new one, as I do — though unlike me, he's making his distaste known. I f…

> And by the way, he's not getting rich off selling a couple handmade prints he makes in his own shop.

If he was, would that make him "one of them"? Making good money suddenly bars you from being a valued member of the community?

> only to find it in the process of being colonized by moneyed interests and neighborhood tourists

Can you explain what you mean by this?

Re: Seattle, in Midst of Tech Boom, Tries to Keep Its Soul

#148

Post by brobinson »

cageface wrote: post #22
geebee wrote: post #7

It's fascinating and sad to read these articles, about some cities struggling with the effects of tech wealth while other cities would see it as an almost unqualified boon. We constantly hear about a desperate shortage of software engineers from tech companies, as well as talk of "six figure" salaries. But the median price for housing in SF is well over a million now, and if you're hoping to have kids and raise a fam…

I haven't lived in the US for almost five years now but if I did come back I'd pick a second-tier city. There's enough remote work now that you can pick any city you want in a US timezone and still make a decent living. I don't see why everyone feels obliged to squeeze into one of three or four insanely overpriced coastal cities in 2015.

Have you written any blog posts/comments about your remote working situation and what led up to it? I'd be interested in hearing your perspective as I've recently faced a lot of difficulty getting companies to even reply to my applications. I'm curious if there's any tips or advice you have. I really, really do not want to move back to SF to get a good job.

Re: Seattle, in Midst of Tech Boom, Tries to Keep Its Soul

#149

Post by steve-howard »

s73v3r wrote: post #74
pm90 wrote: post #12

> John Criscitello placed posters in Seattle's Capitol Hill neighborhood proclaiming “Welcome! Rich Kids,” and “Wish you weren’t here.” Its hard not to feel angry at people like this. "Rich Kids" really? These "Kids" spent years developing their engineering skills to get to the point where they are now. Are engineers paid a lot? Of course. But we're certainly not in the same category as those who inherit wealth. Most…

At the same time, they're people that are coming in and pushing people who have lived there out, simply because they have more money. That would piss most people off.

I hear and empathize with this complaint, and I think it's a real problem. But what about the people on the other side of the fence? You work in software, some company pays you a lot to move out here, and you're in a position to choose where you want to live. Should you really not live in a particular area because it makes you part of a bigger problem?

Re: Seattle, in Midst of Tech Boom, Tries to Keep Its Soul

#150

Post by aaronbrethorst »

rconti wrote: post #137
aaronbrethorst wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever tried traveling anywhere around South Lake Union at the end of a work day? It's an absolute nightmare, and doesn't do anything to ingratiate Amazon to the rest of the city.

Was there ever a reason to travel around South Lake Union at the end of a work day before? Other than to exit 99 for the Mercer Street industrial wasteland pothole-dodge on the way to I-5, of course.

Queen Anne Capitol Hill

Glazer's Camera

Downtown to Eastlake

yeah.

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