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62% of Americans Have Under $1,000 in Savings, Survey Finds

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Re: 62% of Americans Have Under $1,000 in Savings, Survey Finds

#221

Post by branchless »

kdamken wrote: post #210
branchless wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The frugal stuff is rubbish. He can be frugal because the main outgoing for any family is rent. He's taking in two rents. The rest is just a cheap show. The reason why we are all suffering is because of rentiers. It's not because we have slightly expensive data plans on our phone. Rentiers are using this to explain away the real problem. This guy is along for the ride for the web-clicks. Go on his site and ask a ques…

Except that it's not rubbish. Most people do spend large amounts of their paycheck on things they don't need. Just because he makes good money doesn't mean his concepts of saving a large percentage of what you earn aren't sound. They apply to all income levels, even more so for the lower ones. Following his advice and sticking to a budget has gotten me from saving nothing every month to saving at least half of my tak…

He's not playing it straight. He's deriving income as a rentier but saying we can all live like him. We can't because rentier income by definition is income with zero value added.

These guys hiding in the grey area are very damaging. Maybe you were a total fool with your money, but for most people they are on the breadline not because houses are expensive to construct, not because fuel is expensive but because they have to pay a significant portion of their labour to rentiers.

People like this put the blame on the individual. No - it rests with the rentier.

Re: 62% of Americans Have Under $1,000 in Savings, Survey Finds

#222

Post by Avshalom »

beambot wrote: post #181
branchless wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MMM has at least two rental properties and is a phoney. He can teach his kid to be a rentier by borrowing long and taking advantage of the separation between the value of labour vs assets when fiat money is over-issued by private banks. And how to run a web-site about being frugal whilst deriving rental income from three families who cannot save because they are busy working hard to keep MMM pumping out half-truths o…

How does owning rental properties invalidate his message of "avoid rampant, unnecessary consumerism"? Certainly, not everyone can derive their retirement income from rentals (the numbers don't work out). But lucky for you: There are other forms of investment. BTW: I currently rent. It's the financially prudent thing to do in my situation, and I certainly don't begrudge my landlords for it -- they're the ones locked i…

If you work at say Target 40 hours a week, squeak in the occasional overtime and work on every holiday you take home about 12-15k a year after taxes that's about half of what MMM gets from rent.

MMM hasn't come within ten grand of frugality in his life.

It doesn't strictly invalidate his message but it's a grain of salt that should not be forgotten.

Re: 62% of Americans Have Under $1,000 in Savings, Survey Finds

#223

Post by tracker1 »

Every extra cent I've had for the past 5-6 years has gone towards paying off medical bills from a hospital visit that exceeded my insurance policy's maximum by about $138k... I now have under $8k left to pay (everyone that would take sane payment arrangements or reductions has been paid off at this point). It's been very tough, I emptied my retirement accounts and have handed over tax returns etc. to pay it all off...

After this coming year, my plan is to start putting 20% of post-tax income into a Roth IRA.

Re: 62% of Americans Have Under $1,000 in Savings, Survey Finds

#224

Post by eimai134 »

sleazebreeze wrote: post #71
eimai134 wrote: post #13

I'll bet a lot of people have money elsewhere. However, I have a lot of friends who are poor (by that I mean that they qualify for food stamps), and it's amazing to see the way they spend money. When I was poor I bought the very cheapest shampoo ($1) and bought generic everything. The poor people I know now buy name-brand products and buy a ton of Christmas and birthday presents. My husband and I have savings but we…

My partner's family lives in government subsidized housing and they get the full array of benefits including disability and food stamps. His mother buys new luxury items like purses from Coach regularly with cash from under the table jobs. They have more TVs, newer smartphones and iPads and lots of other expensive goods, and yet they have zero savings. I don't understand the thinking there. I just hope their retireme…

I've known three women in the past year who receive benefits and do work under the table for cash. One told me a story about how bad it was when she started making more money and lost the benefits and how it "wasn't worth it." Another has two kids, is unmarried to get more benefits, and even though she job training said that she is never going to get a job that pays a lot because she wants to remain on food stamps. The other has an unreported side business that brings in about $1500 cash that she doesn't report.

Might be worth it for you to have a small place so there is literally "no room" for your partner's family...

Re: 62% of Americans Have Under $1,000 in Savings, Survey Finds

#225

Post by ghaff »

branchless wrote: post #188
ghaff wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's "renters" BTW. [EDIT: Scratch the previous. I am, of course, wrong about the renters correction. Misread.] I'm not sure what he did to get your back up so much or when being a landlord became such a terrible evil. Also, "we" are not suffering. Yes he has a schtick and probably a pretty profitable one. His general advice is probably good for some but mostly isn't my thing because I like restaurants and traveling…

Ok you've really shown you have zero background in economics with that one. It's "rentiers", I can spell renters fine but it makes zero sense in the context above. Go read.

On that one point, I misread and you are, of course, correct. We will however have to agree to disagree about the evils off living of rental income.

Re: 62% of Americans Have Under $1,000 in Savings, Survey Finds

#226

Post by imperialdrive »

cko wrote: post #17
patio11 wrote: post #5

There's a conversation to be had about many Americans living in precarious financial situations, but the reason why most Americans don't currently view their savings accounts as priorities is because in the current interest rate environment savings accounts and CDs are products with vanishingly little to recommend them. The APY my bank offers is one basis point . That's $1 per year for every $10k held in the account.…

There's something to be said for having cash available - here and there, opportunities pop up for me that I can take advantage of. For example, recently I lent money at very high interest, short-term. If I suddenly get interested in prototyping electronics I won't even hesitate to buy an Arduino, sensors, and a few books. Little bits of cash is useful to "try things out." Plus there's the "better sleep at night" fact…

I resonate with your comment. Thank you. I value sleep over all things. My life and daily decision making revolves around "Will I lose sleep over this?"

I sleep sooooo well at night. Sometimes I wonder if the richest and most powerful people in history sleep this well? Hehe, having a couple years of travel in savings works wonders :-D

Re: 62% of Americans Have Under $1,000 in Savings, Survey Finds

#227

Post by steve-howard »

gipp wrote: post #6
patio11 wrote: post #5

There's a conversation to be had about many Americans living in precarious financial situations, but the reason why most Americans don't currently view their savings accounts as priorities is because in the current interest rate environment savings accounts and CDs are products with vanishingly little to recommend them. The APY my bank offers is one basis point . That's $1 per year for every $10k held in the account.…

Well, they offer liquidity. I keep one for emergency living expenses; there's no real advantage over leaving it in checking, I guess, other than as a unit of organization, to explicitly mark it as "emergency funds".

I do this too. Funny enough, my checking account earns a higher rate on the first $10k than my "savings" account, but I use a split direct deposit to grow my emergency savings and then try not to look at the savings account to reduce the temptation to use it.

Re: 62% of Americans Have Under $1,000 in Savings, Survey Finds

#228

Post by eimai134 »

nemo44x wrote: post #116
eimai134 wrote: post #13

I'll bet a lot of people have money elsewhere. However, I have a lot of friends who are poor (by that I mean that they qualify for food stamps), and it's amazing to see the way they spend money. When I was poor I bought the very cheapest shampoo ($1) and bought generic everything. The poor people I know now buy name-brand products and buy a ton of Christmas and birthday presents. My husband and I have savings but we…

Think about it. If you've got nothing and few prospects to ever have anything then why even care? You might as well get some bit of happiness from something since everything else is awful. People want to feel good. Were you poor or just broke while you were young? Poverty is far different from being in college and not making much. Poverty is much different than being short on cash. Poverty includes having limited opt…

I had the prospect ahead of me of always being poor. I decided to forego some immediate pleasures like having cable TV, expensive Internet, eating out, seeing lots of movies, new clothes/shoes, name-brand products, etc. so I could save up, go to school, and get my life in order.

What you mention may well be their line of thinking. Nothing wrong with people thinking whatever they want. I simply did not want the kind of future that such a lifestyle would bring me (i.e., remaining poor).

Re: 62% of Americans Have Under $1,000 in Savings, Survey Finds

#229

Post by mywittyname »

david927 wrote: post #19

A lot of people here think this is about you parse "savings". It's not: 47% of Americans say they lack the cash to pay a surprise $400 bill http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/jun/09/...

Part of the reason I love this site so much is that, while the demographic is highly intelligent, they so often miss the forest through the trees when it comes to these kind of articles.

People aren't eschewing savings accounts because rates are low. They don't have money in savings accounts because they literally don't have ANY money to put in one.

Re: 62% of Americans Have Under $1,000 in Savings, Survey Finds

#230

Post by branchless »

Avshalom wrote: post #222
beambot wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does owning rental properties invalidate his message of "avoid rampant, unnecessary consumerism"? Certainly, not everyone can derive their retirement income from rentals (the numbers don't work out). But lucky for you: There are other forms of investment. BTW: I currently rent. It's the financially prudent thing to do in my situation, and I certainly don't begrudge my landlords for it -- they're the ones locked i…

If you work at say Target 40 hours a week, squeak in the occasional overtime and work on every holiday you take home about 12-15k a year after taxes that's about half of what MMM gets from rent. MMM hasn't come within ten grand of frugality in his life. It doesn't strictly invalidate his message but it's a grain of salt that should not be forgotten.

Yes you get it. And guess what? When they put the minimum wage up the rentiers will all put the rent up. All productivity gains are captured by the landlord in a system of land enclosure.

Land value tax now. Do away with income tax and let people keep the value they add.

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