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Programming Sucks and Why I Quit (2014)

deirdre.net

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Re: Programming Sucks and Why I Quit (2014)

#81

Post by deirdresm »

Killswitch wrote: post #53
dahart wrote: post #35

Wow, I thought I was critical, but there's some serious negativity going down here. Maybe the article is a little scattered, but the tl;dr is Deirdre switched to programming for herself, and quit making crap other people want. For those reacting to the title without reading the article, she clarified that programming is awesome, but programming for money on other peoples terms sucks. I don't know about you guys, mayb…

I feel she was gloating more on what she did than why she quit, but I am in the same boat, I hate programming for others. I have a single client I work for that pays my bills and the rest of the time I build my own stuff. Sometimes the work for them is so mind numbingly boring and not interesting to me, that I could go a whole month only putting in 15 hours of work.

Were I gloating, I'd point out that I a) had code in space before I turned 18 (digital tape driver); b) had written (in Pascal) the code to control emissions for four power plants by the time I was 22.

Truth is, I feel like there aren't any more really interesting problems for me to solve. I've accomplished enough of each kind of thing that really engages me that I'm done.

I'd turned down an Apple job in the mid-80s and always regretted it, so once I spent 5+ years on the Safari team, I felt like that was the only checkbox left.

Re: Programming Sucks and Why I Quit (2014)

#82

Post by eterm »

notacoward wrote: post #64
eterm wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> measurably Do you have some measurements to back this up? I could believe it's true, but you shouldn't say something is measurably worse and then not provide those measurements.

http://fortune.com/2015/03/26/report-the-number-of-women-ent...

Thank you.

Re: Programming Sucks and Why I Quit (2014)

#83

Post by deirdresm »

blisterpeanuts wrote: post #73
outworlder wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sorry it didn't work out for you What? The author was in the field for THIRTY-EIGHT YEARS!

Unless I missed it, she didn't say for how many of those 38 years that programming sucked, though. Her examples of suckiness were all from just a few years ago. Anyway, that's a potentially long time to be doing something you don't enjoy.

That's a difficult question. Essentially, some part of any job sucks. Even within a given field, some jobs and/or projects will suck more than others. Some tools and languages suck more for certain applications than for others.

I've always enjoyed—and still enjoy—the technical aspects of programming.

Since this just came in my email….

"Working at $FIRM offers you the opportunity to work in a fast-paced, challenging, startup environment with a team of passionate individuals who love bringing ideas to life. At $FIRM, no role is small and every person plays a part in the development of our game-changing technology."

fast-paced = you won't have time to think to solve the problems better

challenging = no one knows how to behave themselves, least of all the founders

startup environment = so forget reasonable workweeks and having any time on weekends

team of passionate individuals = they don't have lives, either

no role is small = you will be assigned roles that the last person quit over because it was so trivial

That's the kind of thing I'm done with.

Re: Programming Sucks and Why I Quit (2014)

#84

Post by deirdresm »

phkahler wrote: post #41
jxm262 wrote: post #18

> Instead, I need to pick projects that I care about and not spend long stretches of time on things I don’t. I'm getting this feeling myself more and more lately. And I've only been doing this for a little over 5 years. Although, I wonder if I'll have this thought regardless of what field I am working in.

After similar lines of thought, my conclusion is that you have to embrace the process of writing code and not get too personally invested in the end product - it doesn't belong to you, and a company can and will sell it, scrap it, or let it decay slowly. Step back and be grateful for the opportunity to apply your skills to help someone else create something they felt they needed, and don't worry about what they do wi…

This. So much this.

The brick does not love you. The company funding any project is a brick. No matter how much you love the project (or enjoy the people you're working with), it's temporary.

Detachment is the only way to stay sane long term, but then you're not viewed as "passionate."

Re: Programming Sucks and Why I Quit (2014)

#85

Post by deirdresm »

notacoward wrote: post #61

I agree that programming as a career sucks a lot more than it used to. I understand that part of my saying so is the result of changes in me or my own circumstances. Life was better when I didn't have to deal so much with product and project managers, when I didn't have to be the "leader" creating momentum and mentoring those who don't want to be mentored. I do miss the days when I was an individual contributor mindi…

It was 18 years before I worked with another female software engineer peer.

I don't think most men in the industry can imagine what that would be like.

Re: Programming Sucks and Why I Quit (2014)

#86

Post by deirdresm »

NathanKP wrote: post #13

Programming is nothing but transforming data from one form into another. Once you reach a level of competency where like the author of this article you can implement any kind of transform you like then 99% of programming becomes rather boring. Sure there are still the 1% of interesting problems and algorithms that are fun to work on, but you can only implement so many basic CRUD API's, and boilerplate business logic…

Yep, you've got it. Once I realized I had the skill to accomplish a workable version of anything is when I started noticing that there weren't many problems I cared enough about to feel like they were worth my time.

There are things I'm interested in implementing still. I still enjoy working in Ruby, and my Python's gotten rusty, but I actually work mostly in PHP these days (because of WordPress). I keep promising myself to learn Swift, but I lack Swift-type problems to solve that I care about.

The other thing, as one gets older and has a lot more experience: how much of your remaining unknown quantity of time are you willing to spend doing programming vs. some of your other life goals?

Re: Programming Sucks and Why I Quit (2014)

#87

Post by jevgeni »

deirdresm wrote: post #79
jevgeni wrote: post #25

Wow, I'd expect people here to be more empathic towards a person having a career in software engineering longer than most of the lifetimes of the HN crowd (assuming the article is truthful). Instead one gets a bunch of dismissive, I-know-better-then-all-of-you BS. And they say bankers are arrogant.

Thank you.

I might've confused the gender of your name further down in the comments (not a native English speaker). Sorry for that. :)

Re: Programming Sucks and Why I Quit (2014)

#88

Post by notacoward »

deirdresm wrote: post #85
notacoward wrote: post #61

I agree that programming as a career sucks a lot more than it used to. I understand that part of my saying so is the result of changes in me or my own circumstances. Life was better when I didn't have to deal so much with product and project managers, when I didn't have to be the "leader" creating momentum and mentoring those who don't want to be mentored. I do miss the days when I was an individual contributor mindi…

It was 18 years before I worked with another female software engineer peer. I don't think most men in the industry can imagine what that would be like.

I don't think I've worked with a female developer peer either. Those women twenty-five years ago (I erred in saying it was only twenty) were senior to me. What's really scary is that we do have a few female developers on my team now . . . in Bangalore. Here in the US, we've actually fallen behind in terms of maintaining an environment that's appealing to developers who aren't young, (culturally) white, and male. That does not augur well for our future.

Re: Programming Sucks and Why I Quit (2014)

#89

Post by notacoward »

phkahler wrote: post #41
jxm262 wrote: post #18

> Instead, I need to pick projects that I care about and not spend long stretches of time on things I don’t. I'm getting this feeling myself more and more lately. And I've only been doing this for a little over 5 years. Although, I wonder if I'll have this thought regardless of what field I am working in.

After similar lines of thought, my conclusion is that you have to embrace the process of writing code and not get too personally invested in the end product - it doesn't belong to you, and a company can and will sell it, scrap it, or let it decay slowly. Step back and be grateful for the opportunity to apply your skills to help someone else create something they felt they needed, and don't worry about what they do wi…

That is so depressing. I'm not saying you're wrong, or wrong for saying it, but it's still depressing. For years I've taken pride in my ability to see beyond the code I'm working on, to how that code or other activities (e.g. teaching or even blogging) can contribute to business goals and/or make the computing world a better place. It's what we're supposed to do. We're told we'll be rewarded for it, and sometimes we are financially (thanks boss), but it still takes its mental and emotional toll. Others will undermine your efforts with a competing project or contrary message, or outright pull a project out from under you, often with the best of reasons or intentions, but it still leaves you feeling betrayed.

To end this on a more positive note, consider this: "we're not here to make friends" is EXACTLY WRONG. The friendships you make are the only thing that will last. The "legacy" of your code will become smaller and less valuable over time, even if it's really awesome code; more likely it'll just be tossed aside without a second thought by the next developer or exec with their own agenda to pursue. Your money will be spent. All of the companies I worked for twenty-plus years ago, their technical and financial assets gone as though they'd never been, but some of the friendships I made back then continue. Make code, make money, make friends, but only one of those will last.

Re: Programming Sucks and Why I Quit (2014)

#90

Post by dredmorbius »

phkahler wrote: post #41
jxm262 wrote: post #18

> Instead, I need to pick projects that I care about and not spend long stretches of time on things I don’t. I'm getting this feeling myself more and more lately. And I've only been doing this for a little over 5 years. Although, I wonder if I'll have this thought regardless of what field I am working in.

After similar lines of thought, my conclusion is that you have to embrace the process of writing code and not get too personally invested in the end product - it doesn't belong to you, and a company can and will sell it, scrap it, or let it decay slowly. Step back and be grateful for the opportunity to apply your skills to help someone else create something they felt they needed, and don't worry about what they do wi…

My own view is evolving in this regard. There are some immensely compelling and critical problems facing humanity generally. Most offer little by way of "market opportunity", and much of what is marketable is ... at best irrelevant, and far too frequently, actively harmful. Finding how and where I can apply my skills to net benefit is an exceptionally challenging problem.
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