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Microsoft’s Very Good Day

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Re: Microsoft’s Very Good Day

#21

Post by NicoJuicy »

nateabele wrote: post #10
hliyan wrote: post #6

It's amazing to think that such a massive behemoth could change direction in so little time.

This change has actually been brewing for a long time. I was at a summit they held for Open Source project leaders back in 2008, and we got to sit down with the dev teams for IIS, SQL Server, and some of their web dev tools. They were extremely open, helpful, and just wanted to collaborate on cool stuff. There were only a few pockets of "New Microsoft" back then, but they were there if you looked, and they were worki…

I think some evangelists ( Phil Haack ( now @ github), Scott Guthrie, Scott Hanselman, ...) were ahead of Nadal when changing perception about Microsoft in terms of opensource and community..

It was a bottom-top approach with Nadal as result. Ballmer couldn't understand the new wave. Just like many "old" CEO's of software companies don't understand.

I know companies who still keep programming in Access and Terminal Server, Asp forms, ... Just because their boss understands that.

Re: Microsoft’s Very Good Day

#22

Post by InclinedPlane »

hliyan wrote: post #6

It's amazing to think that such a massive behemoth could change direction in so little time.

Not really. Microsoft has always had two sides, two forces constantly warring with each other internally. Microsoft is and always has been chock full of serious, 100% authentic "hackers". And those have driven the company as much as high level business decisions over the years. Microsoft has long been a proponent for things like open platforms (such as the original PC design) and has long tried to be a good citizen within the computing industry. There was a period of time when those voices were muted compared to the voices of hard-nosed business types but you can see those forces re-asserting themselves in the current iteration of microsoft.

Re: Microsoft’s Very Good Day

#23

Post by mrmondo »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #13

There's been lots of positive announcements from Microsoft recently, but I think I'll save the applause for when they can do those cool things and actually make money from it, not from extorting cash for patents, office document lock-in, and all their other "bad microsoft" stuff.

I'm on your boat with this. I haven't seen any change that truly 'matters'. I have noticed them trying to increase their presence on technical and social media but the content really isn't anything of substance which leads me to feel that they're purely marketing moves.

Re: Microsoft’s Very Good Day

#24

Post by curiousDog »

NicoJuicy wrote: post #21
nateabele wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This change has actually been brewing for a long time. I was at a summit they held for Open Source project leaders back in 2008, and we got to sit down with the dev teams for IIS, SQL Server, and some of their web dev tools. They were extremely open, helpful, and just wanted to collaborate on cool stuff. There were only a few pockets of "New Microsoft" back then, but they were there if you looked, and they were worki…

I think some evangelists ( Phil Haack ( now @ github), Scott Guthrie, Scott Hanselman, ...) were ahead of Nadal when changing perception about Microsoft in terms of opensource and community.. It was a bottom-top approach with Nadal as result. Ballmer couldn't understand the new wave. Just like many "old" CEO's of software companies don't understand. I know companies who still keep programming in Access and Terminal S…

Haha, yeah and to think of it I always rooted for Federer ;)

Re: Microsoft’s Very Good Day

#25

Post by andosa »

mrmondo wrote: post #23
ZeroGravitas wrote: post #13

There's been lots of positive announcements from Microsoft recently, but I think I'll save the applause for when they can do those cool things and actually make money from it, not from extorting cash for patents, office document lock-in, and all their other "bad microsoft" stuff.

I'm on your boat with this. I haven't seen any change that truly 'matters'. I have noticed them trying to increase their presence on technical and social media but the content really isn't anything of substance which leads me to feel that they're purely marketing moves.

Not sure I follow. In what sense are things like Surface Pro, Hololens, Surface book laptop, open source .NET etc. purely marketing moves?

Re: Microsoft’s Very Good Day

#26

Post by simula67 »

sz4kerto wrote: post #20
NotOscarWilde wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To cool down some of the optimism in this comment section: Microsoft is still accepting cash for practically every Android phone made because of their patent threats, or did they change their ways in this regard as well? (I am genuinely curious whether this continues; I tried to google "microsoft android patent threats" but found only news articles from 2013/2014 about the practice.)

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/09/google-and-micros... "Microsoft and Google are pleased to announce an agreement on patent issues. As part of the agreement, the companies will dismiss all pending patent infringement litigation between them, including cases related to Motorola Mobility. "

That article very specifically says that we still do not know whether Microsoft stopped the practice.

Re: Microsoft’s Very Good Day

#27

Post by codeulike »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #13

There's been lots of positive announcements from Microsoft recently, but I think I'll save the applause for when they can do those cool things and actually make money from it, not from extorting cash for patents, office document lock-in, and all their other "bad microsoft" stuff.

extorting cash for patents

Standard practice among all the big players

office document lock-in

Standard practice among the players lucky enough to be able to do it (we now call it 'walled garden')

... My thesis is that all big tech firms now act as MS once did (or would if they could). But we're just used to it now.

Re: Microsoft’s Very Good Day

#28

Post by math »

NotOscarWilde wrote: post #17
delish wrote: post #14

I struggle with changing my perception of Microsoft. I still characterize them by their Halloween documents and efforts to destroy Netscape. I would recommend the Surface to friends or family, which is a recent change. But I would never use Microsoft products. And not just because I'd be giving up years of Linux folk-knowledge. Childishly, when I watch a youtube video of someone far more skilled than me programming i…

To cool down some of the optimism in this comment section: Microsoft is still accepting cash for practically every Android phone made because of their patent threats, or did they change their ways in this regard as well? (I am genuinely curious whether this continues; I tried to google "microsoft android patent threats" but found only news articles from 2013/2014 about the practice.)

On this, I get a lot more upset with those setting the rules than those playing the game.

Re: Microsoft’s Very Good Day

#29

Post by troels »

codeulike wrote: post #19
delish wrote: post #14

I struggle with changing my perception of Microsoft. I still characterize them by their Halloween documents and efforts to destroy Netscape. I would recommend the Surface to friends or family, which is a recent change. But I would never use Microsoft products. And not just because I'd be giving up years of Linux folk-knowledge. Childishly, when I watch a youtube video of someone far more skilled than me programming i…

But what they did to destroy netscape (bundling a competing app with some other thing) is now a tactic so common that it is taken for granted. I guess what made it scary is that they really did have a strong monopoly and it looked like they might dominate forever. So its not so much the tactics that offend people, but how much power they had when wielding those tactics. Seems to me like every big tech firm now makes…

I think that's very true. It was also a different environment back then - people affected were a much more homogenous group, so it's not surprising that we as a group identified strongly against what MS did. That fosters strong feelings.

That said, is this all just another EMBRACE from Nadella? ;)

Re: Microsoft’s Very Good Day

#30

Post by arethuza »

aswerty wrote: post #5
andosa wrote: post #2

It definitely feels like Microsoft is on the right track with Nadella in charge.

Yeah, with the likes of .Net Core it seems very much like Microsoft are on the right track. But you'll still see plenty of, what I call, "Microsoft decisions" that just make things into more hassle or expense than it should be purely for the pursuit of profit. One example is if you want to migrate from Linux to Windows 10 on a few computers you're legally required to buy a Windows 10 license for each machine you run.…

I think you can license Windows on a per-user basis. Certainly for their higher end products (e.g. Dynamics AX ERP) you can choose device or user CALs and pick whichever one minimizes your license costs.

One of Microsoft's weaknesses is definitely the complexity of their licensing.

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