The article's conclusion left me feeling kinda meh. The article made me feel like it was leading up to something and then "... is destined for an uphill battle.". Well, yeah? Anytime you base your business on someone else's data, you run the risk of the carpet getting yanked out from underneath you.
What Zillow doesn't want you to know about its listing gap
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Re: What Zillow doesn't want you to know about its listing gap
#52Mods: the title of this HN post is not the title of the linked article, which at this writing is the somewhat less clickbaity "What Zillow Doesn’t Want You To Know". In fact, the c&d part, while important, could almost be seen as a distraction from the larger issues of MLS listing access discussed in the article.
Ok, we reverted to the original title plus a representative phrase from the article. Submitted title was "Zillow using cease-and-desists to kill posts about their listings". I don't think it broke the rule—more likely the submitter was trying to follow the rule by rewording something linkbaity. But since people don't agree about this we've taken another shot.
Ok, we reverted to the original title plus a representative phrase from the article.
It combines the clickbait of the original title with a specific industry term that people will have to look up separately! I genuinely don't understand how you could think that this is a better title for this post.
Re: What Zillow doesn't want you to know about its listing gap
#53When I was looking for a condo this past summer, I used RedFin. Since RedFin ties into MSLs (basically a list that all realtors use), I knew about listing before my agent could email me about them. I highly recommend it, even if you have a non-RedFin agent.
Zillow used to tie into MLSs but their access was cut in most areas (as described in the article) due to a dispute. Used to be an awesome resource, now it's a ghost town. Would think it's only a matter of time before realtor.com shuts down similar sites like RedFin.
Realtor.com is more like Redfin in that it's owned by a third party, but it does have the blessing of Realtors to get all of the MLS information.
Re: What Zillow doesn't want you to know about its listing gap
#54Anybody know of any good sources of MLS data for programmatic consumption (even if not free)?
You could try Listhub, but they charge. Any other source would most likely not be legally obtained.
Re: What Zillow doesn't want you to know about its listing gap
#55Zillow has substantially mitigated the loss of Move.com/Realtor.com by forging direct relationships with numerous MLSs since the cutoff in April.
> Since January, more than 300 MLSs have signed agreements to send listings directly to Zillow and Trulia, providing their members access to the largest audience of home shoppers on mobile and Web 1.
http://investors.zillowgroup.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID...
The sampling methods used by the author are extremely poor. Miami, FL on Zillow.com and Realtor.com are substantially different areas. Just do a search yourself and look at the map. Realtor appears to be using the metro while Zillow's site defaults to "Miami" only. They need to extract 100% inventory and use exactly the same geofenced boundaries if you want actual 1:1 comparison. Their conclusion may very well be correct but the data sure as hell does not support it.
If you want to criticize Zillow, there are far easier methods than this one. How about that Trulia acquired MarketLeader for $355M (Apr 13), Zillow acquired Trulia for $2.5B (Feb 15), and Zillow just sold MarketLeader for $23M. How much of Trulia's $2.5B pricetag was in recognition of Market Leader's "value"? I'm guessing we'll see at least $200-250M or so drop from Zillow's goodwill ($1.8B as of 6/30/15) on their balance sheet for Q3-15.
Re: What Zillow doesn't want you to know about its listing gap
#56Anybody know of any good sources of MLS data for programmatic consumption (even if not free)?
Without having direct access to an MLS (ie, being a brokerage), you're pretty much SOL for getting access to decent listing data.
If you DO have access, and you're looking for a solution to use the MLS data via a more simple API - SimplyRETS (https://simplyrets.com) can help with that :) (Disclaimer: I'm a cofounder).
Past that, ListHub, as another user mentioned, is probably the best bet if you're not a member of an MLS - but it's not free.
Re: What Zillow doesn't want you to know about its listing gap
#57It doesn't seem surprising that Zillow is pump-and-dumping in an already extremely bubbly market.
While you didn't provide any evidence, I agree with you. The housing market didn't "rebound" per se; investors soaked up all of the distressed inventory while previous owners fled to rentals. This masked the underlying fundamentals of the real estate market. In some markets (SF, Texas), you have a lot of foreign (read: Chinese) money flowing in fleeing less than favorable jurisdictions. That should hold prices up the…
I think xacaxulu was referring to Zillow, the company - not the housing market.
Re: What Zillow doesn't want you to know about its listing gap
#58Anybody know of any good sources of MLS data for programmatic consumption (even if not free)?
There aren't any. All the regional MLS' are separate entities and make it as annoying/difficult/expensive as possible to access their data programatically. Think having to be a licensed broker, then paying for access to download a daily CSV with all active listings.
Who'd have thought that an industry of middlemen would make it hard to reduce friction in their marketplace...
(Source: building websites with MLS integration for real estate offices)
Re: What Zillow doesn't want you to know about its listing gap
#59Anybody know of any good sources of MLS data for programmatic consumption (even if not free)?
There aren't any. All the regional MLS' are separate entities and make it as annoying/difficult/expensive as possible to access their data programatically. Think having to be a licensed broker, then paying for access to download a daily CSV with all active listings. Who'd have thought that an industry of middlemen would make it hard to reduce friction in their marketplace... (Source: building websites with MLS integr…
There are, ListHub, unless you don't think it qualifies as a "good" source? We've been happy enough with it, but we're only on the rentals side of things.
Re: What Zillow doesn't want you to know about its listing gap
#60FYI: To add some color to the article, here's more information about the different relationships of MLS with Zillow and Redfin from a former Redfin intern (posted July 28, 2014): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8096912
That's a very interesting read. So that means that in my market (Houston, TX), Redfin actually has all the listings? I wasn't aware of that. har.com usually has 100% coverage and some nifty features, but the mobile app is pretty awful
In a very simplified nutshell - yes. HAR is the MLS in Houston, and Redfin is a brokerage in Houston. That allows Redfin to sign an agreement with HAR to access their listing data and show it publicly. HAR will have 100% of listings from participating brokerages (non-participating brokers are a very, very small percentage). Now, as long as Redfin follows some rules they'll have no problem keeping up to date listings (after all, getting them directly from the MLS is the best source you'll get).
Zillow, on the other hand, has an agreement with some MLS's, but for the most part they rely on alternative methods of getting listing data. The only reason that have any (IMO) is because they have consumers looking for property there - which gives the Realtor incentive to upload/update their listings. So as everyone else is saying, Zillow can fall out of date - whereas Redfin can actually get penalized for being out of date.