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How Will We Get Off Mars?

news.nationalgeographic.com

41–50 of 71 posts

Re: How Will We Get Off Mars?

#41
post #25

This is probably not going to be a very popular position but I'm going to say it anyway: there is no rational reason to bring a human back from Mars. In fact, there are precious few rational reasons to send a human to Mars to begin with. Robot technology has advanced to the point where they can do all the science better than we can. The only reason to send humans to Mars is to colonize, and if we're going to think se…

> there is no rational reason to bring a human back from Mars. You're right. As the article mentioned though, the public doesn't like the idea of leaving someone on an alien planet, and the public isn't rational.

Private industry should fund the colonization of Mars. Who cares what the public thinks? Musk and early colonists will end up owning an entire planet.

Re: How Will We Get Off Mars?

#42
post #25

This is probably not going to be a very popular position but I'm going to say it anyway: there is no rational reason to bring a human back from Mars. In fact, there are precious few rational reasons to send a human to Mars to begin with. Robot technology has advanced to the point where they can do all the science better than we can. The only reason to send humans to Mars is to colonize, and if we're going to think se…

> will continue to be a whole lot more hospitable than Mars even under worst-case climate change scenarios.

One might almost say, "especially under worst-case climate change scenarios".

Re: How Will We Get Off Mars?

#43
post #25

This is probably not going to be a very popular position but I'm going to say it anyway: there is no rational reason to bring a human back from Mars. In fact, there are precious few rational reasons to send a human to Mars to begin with. Robot technology has advanced to the point where they can do all the science better than we can. The only reason to send humans to Mars is to colonize, and if we're going to think se…

Sending and returning people to Mars is a problem that has far fewer question marks than having people stay there. A return mission is essentially an engineering problem: likely one of the most difficult ones humanity has had, but at least we know how to pose the questions which we must answer.

For a non-return mission, there are so many unknowns. We have barely a clue on how to sustain a human body on such a far away place nutritionally, psychologically and medically. If we were to send humans to Mars to grow old there, there will be so many unknowns that they will likely die quickly and helplessly due to some aspect of Mars missions we are ignorant of. It is running an experiment with human lives. Given that we know so little about the risks involved, I think it's unethical to send people there like that. Even if people choose for this themselves, it becomes at best unhelpful for humanity's view of space exploration to see people die helplessly on some remote world because we were running a grand experiment.

Sending people to Mars, and ending up having to say "Wow, we did not see that coming" is not something that will benefit humanity. We are not even close to being well-prepared enough for such a mission to become a success.

Moreover, return missions are a way to actually prepare the colonization experiment. Colonization can be the next step once longer and longer return missions give us the vital information we need about how living on Mars works for humans.

Return missions are something we know we can do. We know how to sustain humans for days in environments like outer space and the moon, places far more hostile than Mars (the trip to Mars will likely be far more hostile than actually being there on the surface). We just need to solve an engineering problem.

I also think you are overestimating our robotics. A trained geologist on the surface of Mars for a few weeks with a suitcase of instruments and e-mail access would give us exponentially more information than all previous Mars missions combined.

Re: How Will We Get Off Mars?

#44
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it? Why? The truth is that Mars is a pretty miserable place for humans. It's cold. It's dry. It's dusty. I just came back from a trip to northern Canada, and it was a pretty bleak, desolate place, but it's a tropical paradise compared to Mars. So what makes Mars so cool? I really don't get it. The only thing I can imagine is that people think it's cool because they have no clue what it would really be like.

Mars may sound not very fun, but I'll argue it's better than big parts of Russia or Canada. And those are habitable. Not many people live there, but they do. Mars has no air. That's downside. But there's no snow to block your roads and no rain to turn them to mud. Then there's no permafrost to make ground undiggable. That's tremendous upside for e.g. mining operations. There's no rivers, lakes or forests. There's pro…

Bad news. :\

http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/IOTD/view.php?id=8786

Re: How Will We Get Off Mars?

#45
post #25

This is probably not going to be a very popular position but I'm going to say it anyway: there is no rational reason to bring a human back from Mars. In fact, there are precious few rational reasons to send a human to Mars to begin with. Robot technology has advanced to the point where they can do all the science better than we can. The only reason to send humans to Mars is to colonize, and if we're going to think se…

[deleted]

Re: How Will We Get Off Mars?

#46
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>if we're going to think seriously about colonizing Mars, we ought to think seriously about colonizing the arctic and antarctic first. And with this you completely miss the reason why we need to colonize away from our planet. What if a catastrophic event completely destroyed all life on Earth - the poles included? All of humanity. Wiped out in a single event. Getting people onto Mars is the first step to making sure…

Why is that such a priority for people? Why can't we just worry about taking better care of the people we have NOW?

We could treat everyone like millionaires and that wouldn't make an ounce of difference to anyone if our entire species went extinct. Absolutely no treatment we can give to one another prevents a catastrophic event from wiping us all out.

A catastrophic event isn't going to stop and think "Oh hey, humans are treating each other nicely. Maybe I shouldn't wipe them all out?"

Re: How Will We Get Off Mars?

#47
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mars may sound not very fun, but I'll argue it's better than big parts of Russia or Canada. And those are habitable. Not many people live there, but they do. Mars has no air. That's downside. But there's no snow to block your roads and no rain to turn them to mud. Then there's no permafrost to make ground undiggable. That's tremendous upside for e.g. mining operations. There's no rivers, lakes or forests. There's pro…

Bad news. :\ http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/IOTD/view.php?id=8786

Images are similar, but that doesn't mean ground is as hard. Water could vaporize and migrate to caps ot submerge, leaving relatively diggable soil.

Re: How Will We Get Off Mars?

#48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the assumption there that a Falcon 9 lands vertically and a Dragon (or equivalent) is the ascent vehicle? Still doesn't really address the business of manufacturing the fuel or getting it into the rocket. Nor, indeed, the matter of lifting a Dragon 60m into the air to integrate it back onto its launcher. So much Earth infrastructure we depend on for this stuff.

> ..lifting a Dragon 60m into the air to integrate it back onto its launcher. Why would you need to do that? Why not land the Falcon (Edit: Actually, it might be a Raptor) with the Dragon already on top of it?

Raptor is the engine. Though it's unlikely anything baring the Falcon name will ever leave low earth orbit, it's just too specialised for the job of leaving earth's surface.

It's not even designed to stay in LEO, they go out of the way to make sure it falls back into earth's atmosphere within a orbit or two (often less than a single orbit).

You want to design a new craft from the ground up with the job ascending from mars. Ideally to save weight you want the stage's rockets to be used as many times as possible: Mars ascent, Mars Landing, Potentially orbital manoeuvres to get from LEO to mars and maybe the final part of earth ascent.

But making a rocket fire that many times requires the ability to refuel, perhaps even twice (both LEO and on mars). You also have to be confidant about re-igniting the engine that many times over 5+ years.

Re: How Will We Get Off Mars?

#49
post #25

This is probably not going to be a very popular position but I'm going to say it anyway: there is no rational reason to bring a human back from Mars. In fact, there are precious few rational reasons to send a human to Mars to begin with. Robot technology has advanced to the point where they can do all the science better than we can. The only reason to send humans to Mars is to colonize, and if we're going to think se…

I believe Bill Nye put it this way - a human geologist can do the same work as our current Mars rovers, but 100-1000x faster. So what takes a week for a rover might take a few minutes for a human walking on the surface.

Re: How Will We Get Off Mars?

#50
post #7

That MAV experience does not sound appealing at all. 43 hours, standing up, no food, no toilet, no sitting down, no stretching your limbs. Riding on top of a metal rocket. Surrounded by millions of miles of lethal void.

About 10min after takeoff there will be no gravity, so the seats are practically useless anyway.

It's the pre-flight checks which will make the lack of seats a large issue, they need to be at the MAV at least 4 hours before launch and have the doors closed maybe an hour before takeoff (before that anyone not doing checks could sit in the rover)

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