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Google won't make search recommendations for "Islam is"

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Re: Google won't make search recommendations for "Islam is"

#51

Post by joubert »

miguelpais wrote: post #47

This is rather disturbing. I didn't live through a dictatorial government in my country, but 30 years or so one that was ruling for about 50 years was put down. The worst thing about a dictatorship is not the censorship itself that will cut the parts that they don't want to be read from a text or a poem, it is when the author himself limits its expressiveness and freewill to the walls built by the fear of the censors…

Aren't they simply withholding phrase suggestions which they deem wrong? I.e. you can still search for anything ranging from the angelic to the vile, and they probably don't censor (but of course, there's no way for an outsider to ever know).

What I do wonder is whether Google, for example, actually filters out from its search results websites that are blacklisted by the Australian government, when people down under google.

Re: Google won't make search recommendations for "Islam is"

#52

Post by nollidge »

joubert wrote: post #46
krakensden wrote: post #5

Everyone knows exactly why they don't make search recommendations, and is there really anything we can say about it that won't devolve into trolling, flaming, and deliberate misunderstanding?

Possibly the starting "Is" in Islam throws the googleboxen into a self-recursive Gödel gyroscope. For example, if you try with related phrases such as "Muslim is" it works. So my guess would be algorithm breakdown because of "is" repeat.

Probably not. "Island is" works. It's not even that you don't find offensive things in the dropdown; it's that there's suddenly no dropdown.

Weirder still is that "Muslim is $ADJECTIVE" is ungrammatical. Typing "Christian is" turns up some nonsensical results, not the same negative ones that "Muslim is" or "Christianity is" do.

Re: Google won't make search recommendations for "Islam is"

#53

Post by nollidge »

lmkg wrote: post #16
blahedo wrote: post #2

Interestingly, the same is not true for Islam was ("founded", "founded by", "spread by the sword") or Muhammad is ("a false prophet", "satan", "the antichrist") or was ("born and raised in", "born", "illiterate"), or Allah is ("satan", "great", "not obliged") or was (which, intriguingly, has just a single suggestion, "a moon god"). I'm actually having a hard time finding anything else that is similarly blocked. Makes…

My pet theory was that it was based on the length of the query, since "Islam" was the shortest word on the list of terms. That got shot down by "Allah is ". I guess it really is censoring.

Not censoring. Just not actively suggesting certain things. That stuff is all reachable if you want to type the whole thing yourself.

Re: Google won't make search recommendations for "Islam is"

#54

Post by Retric »

gort wrote: post #9
krakensden wrote: post #5

Everyone knows exactly why they don't make search recommendations, and is there really anything we can say about it that won't devolve into trolling, flaming, and deliberate misunderstanding?

Everyone knows exactly why Sure, but did you know that they were doing it at all? I didn't until today.

I don't think it's removed for the reasons you think it is.

It seems to be driven by what people search for. First option under "dead b" is "dead baby jokes". Try "death and r" and "death and return of superman" is above "death and resurrection of jesus". And one of the options under "death squads" is "death squads health care" If people don't use "Islam is ..." all that often it's not going to be part of their suggestion tree.

PS: First option under "muslim is " is "muslim is wrong". Muslim is not actually a religion, but I think far more people in the US use it than islam.

Re: Google won't make search recommendations for "Islam is"

#55

Post by joubert »

gort wrote: post #26
LargeWu wrote: post #24

I haven't seen it pointed out yet that it doesn't actually block searches for "Islam is". It only blocks recommendations. It's not like they're censoring actual results here. What they're doing is simply disabling a minor feature for a small number of potentially inflammatory use cases at the expense of about 10 seconds of amusement for you. If this offends you, I would think it says more about you than Google.

It doesn't exactly offend me; I just find it interesting and potentially troubling. It's part of a trend of going out of the way to avoid offending Muslims specifically. I fear that things like Ireland's new blasphemy law, which came into force a few days ago, are the result of this trend. (Of course, it applies to mockery of all religions; in the West at least one can hardly get a law passed outlawing just mockery o…

What I wonder is how the autosuggestions are generally generated.

From what users type in?

If so, and certain phrases get censored from autosuggest (even though "Islam is" is specifically in the censor list, it is not the only phrase that is specifically on this list), then my conclusion would be that the majority of phrases that googlers type in that start with "Islam is" are hateful? Hence the exclusion. In fact, what phrases get excluded might even be data driven as you can deduce sentiment from the most common phrases that users type in.

Re: Google won't make search recommendations for "Islam is"

#56

Post by gort »

Retric wrote: post #54
gort wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone knows exactly why Sure, but did you know that they were doing it at all? I didn't until today.

I don't think it's removed for the reasons you think it is. It seems to be driven by what people search for. First option under "dead b" is "dead baby jokes". Try "death and r" and "death and return of superman" is above "death and resurrection of jesus". And one of the options under "death squads" is "death squads health care" If people don't use "Islam is ..." all that often it's not going to be part of their sugge…

Hmm - you could be right, but as the article takes pains to note, all of the obvious analogous searches do return suggestions, which I think is evidence against your idea.

Still, it's been pointed out that queries like "Muhammad is" still "work", which I think is evidence for your idea. :)

Re: Google won't make search recommendations for "Islam is"

#57

Post by gloob »

yters wrote: post #28
gort wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't exactly offend me; I just find it interesting and potentially troubling. It's part of a trend of going out of the way to avoid offending Muslims specifically. I fear that things like Ireland's new blasphemy law, which came into force a few days ago, are the result of this trend. (Of course, it applies to mockery of all religions; in the West at least one can hardly get a law passed outlawing just mockery o…

If we only respect religions that cut off our heads, eventually those will be the religions that rule us.

I can't speak for anyone else here, obviously, but I've never had my head cut off, whether by Islam, Muslims, or any related noun. "The plural of anecdote is not data" and all that, though, so take my story with a grain of salt, eh?

Re: Google won't make search recommendations for "Islam is"

#58

Post by joubert »

krakensden wrote: post #5

Everyone knows exactly why they don't make search recommendations, and is there really anything we can say about it that won't devolve into trolling, flaming, and deliberate misunderstanding?

I don't know what your theory is ("everyone knows exactly why"), but I'll put forth my thesis.

1) Autosuggestions are a sample of the most frequent phrases google users type in

2) This autosuggest list is analyzed statistically and a sentiment score established ranging from 0 (friendly) through 1 (hateful).

3) If the autosuggest list statistics reveal a certain characteristic (e.g. all hateful, or very controversial, etc.), then no suggestions get returned.

If I'm wrong that at least in principle this is an automatic, data-driven behavior, then I really feel sorry for the sod who is maintaining a list of what phrases aren't kosher.

Re: Google won't make search recommendations for "Islam is"

#59

Post by joubert »

gort wrote: post #56
Retric wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's removed for the reasons you think it is. It seems to be driven by what people search for. First option under "dead b" is "dead baby jokes". Try "death and r" and "death and return of superman" is above "death and resurrection of jesus". And one of the options under "death squads" is "death squads health care" If people don't use "Islam is ..." all that often it's not going to be part of their sugge…

Hmm - you could be right, but as the article takes pains to note, all of the obvious analogous searches do return suggestions, which I think is evidence against your idea. Still, it's been pointed out that queries like "Muhammad is" still "work", which I think is evidence for your idea. :)

Right, I think the author of the article is not really interested in uncovering the (presumably) interesting heuristics for inclusion/exclusion in the autosuggest list, and is rather just throwing his prejudices out in the open.

Re: Google won't make search recommendations for "Islam is"

#60

Post by joubert »

viggity wrote: post #12

So much for letting the algorithms rule their results. They could at least be somewhat equal about it and do the same thing about christianity and judaism, but then again, they know that nobody is going to chop someone's head off when they see that the first result for "christianity is" is "christianity is bullshit ". How long is the civilized world going submit to this insanity? When is enough, enough?

Why do you think "jews are" doesn't autocomplete? Or how about "jesus sucks"?
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