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The model minority is losing patience

economist.com

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Re: The model minority is losing patience

#181

Post by mazerackham »

Natsu wrote: post #142
andrepd wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's about equality of opportunities, not equality of outcome. We want to make sure that everyone regardless of race has the same shot at being an NBA player, though not necessarily that at the end of the day there is perfect proportional representation of whites, asians, blacks, etc.

Which is among the reasons it's so terrible to select applicants to higher education based on the race listed on their application form. It's not 'equality of opportunity' if we see people binning an application because someone is Asian, which is something we do see statistically.

I think one of the main reasons for keeping affirmative action deals specifically with the systematic oppression and marginalization of Black people in America (that as Ferguson and other black related police deaths show, is STILL happening now).

I think this article is showing that Asians are tired of unfairly paying the cost of that affirmative action, with college being a zero sum game.

Re: The model minority is losing patience

#182

Post by mazerackham »

happyscrappy wrote: post #46
[deleted] wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

But the success of Asians/Indians kind of disproves the narrative that it is all about class. They come with nothing, live in the same poor neighborhoods and are so successful that they are discriminated against to promote diversity on campus.

There's no immensely cruel and systematic oppression of Asians/Indians over centuries. While things are fair for Asians yet, I'm talking specifically about SLAVERY. Then after that Jim Crowe law and other terrible forms of oppression. And then even now, there's incidents like Ferguson, being made readily apparent by our new age of record-anything technology.

So yea, while I started up growing up in the poorest neighborhoods, black neighborhoods, my situation was not the same as my neighbors. My parents had a college education. They had no debt or drug problems, and did not end up incarcerated. I didn't grow up with people thinking I'm dangerous or about to steal something.

Interesting thing is that as our situation improved slowly to upper middle class by the time I graduated high school, my surroundings got less and less black, and more and more white. It's too simplistic for us to judge the poor, when we do not truly understand their situation.

Re: The model minority is losing patience

#183

Post by mazerackham »

omonra wrote: post #178
jackpirate wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From your article: > In 2006, the black arrest rate for most crimes was two to nearly three times blacks’ representation in the population. Blacks constituted 39.3% of all violent-crime arrests, including 56.3% of all robbery and 34.5% of all aggravated-assault arrests, and 29.4% of all property-crime arrests. This paragraph is presupposing that the arrest process is fair to assert that blacks deserve their higher pr…

I'm not sure if you missed these two points: "From 1976 to 2005, blacks committed more than 52% of all murders in America." and "The advocates acknowledge such crime data only indirectly: by charging bias on the part of the system’s decision makers. As Obama suggested in the Martin Luther King debate, police, prosecutors and judges treat blacks and whites differently “for the same crime.” But in fact, cops don’t over…

Lol, I believe that cops DEFINITELY over-arrest blacks. After Ferguson and a huge WAVE of black people dying unfairly at the hands of police officers, you can read a lot of articles online where highly educated black men (ivy league) write about how they get pulled over by a cop once every 1-2 weeks for NOTHING (except for being black).

Think about that, once every 1-2 weeks. I've been pulled over 3 times in my life. Twice for speeding, once for a broken tail light.

Re: The model minority is losing patience

#184

Post by mazerackham »

crimsonalucard wrote: post #62
mwhuang2 wrote: post #39

“There’s something in the upbringing that makes Asians shy," At my first internship, people were commenting on how timid I seemed. I was used to obeying my parents and teachers without question; all I did was try to keep my head down and work harder. This sort of upbringing makes for great workers but bad leaders. I hope to come out of my shell more during the rest of college and my formative years.

As an asian, I think shyness is also genetic. My parents were pretty lax in terms of discipline. So lax, that I ended up going to a community college after high school and transferring to ucla after i got my act together. This didn't stop me from being shy. Shyness is just a heightened fear response that's triggered during social situations. I think for asians the threshold for this trigger just lower when compared t…

Chin up, I don't think it's genetic. This stereotype of being shy, socially awkward losers is beaten into Americans (asian or not) from a very early age. Just look at all of our media. Asians are either totally absent, or complete bottom feeders on the social ladder. I bet that a lot of your personality comes from the environment and expectations you grow up in.

It sucks, but the good thing is that it's never too late to change. There are tons of boss Asians. I was rather popular in high school (and I'm from the deep south, only Asian guy in my class) and college, and often find myself the center of attention in social situations. One of the upper level managers at my company is Asian and he's very social, and he even has an accent! I have plenty of other friends who are very extroverted and confident, and they're asian too.

It's a skill, like any other, and focused hard work will yield improvements.

Re: The model minority is losing patience

#185

Post by omonra »

mazerackham wrote: post #183
omonra wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure if you missed these two points: "From 1976 to 2005, blacks committed more than 52% of all murders in America." and "The advocates acknowledge such crime data only indirectly: by charging bias on the part of the system’s decision makers. As Obama suggested in the Martin Luther King debate, police, prosecutors and judges treat blacks and whites differently “for the same crime.” But in fact, cops don’t over…

Lol, I believe that cops DEFINITELY over-arrest blacks. After Ferguson and a huge WAVE of black people dying unfairly at the hands of police officers, you can read a lot of articles online where highly educated black men (ivy league) write about how they get pulled over by a cop once every 1-2 weeks for NOTHING (except for being black). Think about that, once every 1-2 weeks. I've been pulled over 3 times in my life.…

1. I'm not sure why you bring up Ferguson when the guy was clearly in the wrong. Ie he got killed because he fought the cop for his gun (which went off inside the car) and then charged at him.

Ie someone who jumps out a 10th story window can't blame the oppressive "gravity" for causing their death.

2. That said, I take your point that educated black men may be unfairly targeted for being pulled over. Yet I don't see how someone being pulled over results in their arrest, let alone conviction of a crime which they did not commit.

That's the issue - not that someone gets pulled over every couple of weeks (unpleasant but hardly life-altering) but that huge number of men are in prison for actually committing crime.

Re: The model minority is losing patience

#186

Post by mazerackham »

omonra wrote: post #185
mazerackham wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lol, I believe that cops DEFINITELY over-arrest blacks. After Ferguson and a huge WAVE of black people dying unfairly at the hands of police officers, you can read a lot of articles online where highly educated black men (ivy league) write about how they get pulled over by a cop once every 1-2 weeks for NOTHING (except for being black). Think about that, once every 1-2 weeks. I've been pulled over 3 times in my life.…

1. I'm not sure why you bring up Ferguson when the guy was clearly in the wrong. Ie he got killed because he fought the cop for his gun (which went off inside the car) and then charged at him. Ie someone who jumps out a 10th story window can't blame the oppressive "gravity" for causing their death. 2. That said, I take your point that educated black men may be unfairly targeted for being pulled over . Yet I don't see…

1. As all the controversy shows, he wasn't "clearly in the wrong". Neither was Eric Gardner, that guy who got choked out, nor all the other cases, the names of whom I started to forget because the reporting became so common place, i.e. it was happening all the time.

2. So let's say a white person and a black person in a car have the same rate of performing a crime (let's say smoking marijuana, a harmless pastime enjoyed by all races). Let's say that if a cop pulls you over while you are smoking marijuana, then you will be arrested. Well if a cop is twice as likely to pull you over if you are black, then there will be twice as many black arrests. This is a simplistic model and doesn't even factor situations where a black person gets pulled over, and definitely gets forced out of his car, handcuffed, and searched, whereas a white person might be able to cordially get away with a smile and a "Yessir".

Re: The model minority is losing patience

#187

Post by chang2301 »

rsy96 wrote: post #80

One reason that Asians outperform other racial groups in the United States is overlooked in the article: the difficulty of immigration. Most whites and blacks are born within the US, and Hispanics are either born or move into the US by simply crossing a land border. For Asians to come to the US, they have to cross the Pacific Ocean. In order to do that, they have to be either rich (at least middle class), highly educ…

Agree with your point. Under that extreme "win or die" situation, immigrants will need to work harder to survive.

Re: The model minority is losing patience

#188

Post by omonra »

mazerackham wrote: post #186
omonra wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. I'm not sure why you bring up Ferguson when the guy was clearly in the wrong. Ie he got killed because he fought the cop for his gun (which went off inside the car) and then charged at him. Ie someone who jumps out a 10th story window can't blame the oppressive "gravity" for causing their death. 2. That said, I take your point that educated black men may be unfairly targeted for being pulled over . Yet I don't see…

1. As all the controversy shows, he wasn't "clearly in the wrong". Neither was Eric Gardner, that guy who got choked out, nor all the other cases, the names of whom I started to forget because the reporting became so common place, i.e. it was happening all the time. 2. So let's say a white person and a black person in a car have the same rate of performing a crime (let's say smoking marijuana, a harmless pastime enjo…

1. The only thing that controversy showed is that Mainstream Media is bending over backward to accommodate black race baiters.

If you read the report that explains in great detail what happened (as opposed to just saying 'well, there's no smoke without fire') - you will see what I mean: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/08/13/us/ferguson-mi...

Eric Gardner was indeed a completely different case. His death was an unfortunate accident. The cop did not intend to kill him - he was looking for a way to subdue a very large man. I do agree that under normal circumstances it should be treated as manslaughter (ie unintended killing).

2. Your scenario is missing a very important point. I'm not saying that black arrest rates are much higher, hence this proves criminality.

Rather the rates for being convicted for serious crimes (like murder) is off the charts. Likewise victim reports of the race of crime perpetrators matches the conviction stats.

So basically the innocent black guys who just smoked weed in a car and happened to be pulled over because they're black are not going to jail for it (maybe a fine at most).

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