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The Most Important Thing: Decline in poverty, illiteracy and disease

nytimes.com

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Re: The Most Important Thing: Decline in poverty, illiteracy and disease

#51

Post by JesperRavn »

whackedspinach wrote: post #12
Max_Horstmann wrote: post #6

Since this is HN, here's a question: what role could technology play in eliminating extreme poverty by 2030?

Well an easy answer is to take a lot of that money people are earning in technology (I'm talking personal income or gifts from companies) and put it towards programs that either work towards ending poverty in those cases (through economic development, direct cash grants, etc) or improving health conditions, which often helps. Some possibilities (although there are many others): http://www.givewell.org/charities/top-c…

Also whenever you earn more money, some the tax you pay goes towards programs like this whether you donate anything extra or not. So getting a high paying job alone helps.

Re: The Most Important Thing: Decline in poverty, illiteracy and disease

#52

Post by piker »

mazerackham wrote: post #37
piker wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps American sentiment is based on China's hundreds of years of bad policy relegating those same millions of people to extreme poverty? [edit: it might be more fair to say decades here, if you believe we can only attribute "policy" to the Communist Party]

I think you're right in your edit, the Community Party has only been in power for decades. Prior to that, China was in turmoil due to colonization and imperialism by the U.S., France, Britain, and other European states, as well as Japan. I believe it's more accurate to say that the American sentiment is derived from China being a rising world power ideologically backed by Communism, and an actual threat to America's…

While changes may be afoot, the one-party system has bred open and notorious corruption and censorship for 30+ years. The Party is also jeopardizing the global economy with its treatment of the market correction, mostly in the interest of defending its own position. I don't think negative American sentiment towards the Party is entirely misplaced.

Re: The Most Important Thing: Decline in poverty, illiteracy and disease

#53

Post by tsotha »

mazerackham wrote: post #21

Another big secret, is that the source of a lot of poverty being lifted is because of China. That's right, that terribly communist government suppressing its people and free speech, is actually responsible for lifting 500 million people out of poverty over the last 30 years. That is definitely a big secret of american media, and something that it neglects to report on, in favor of free speech violations, naval exerci…

>That's right, that terribly communist government suppressing its people and free speech, is actually responsible for lifting 500 million people out of poverty over the last 30 years.

There isn't anything recognizably communist about the Chinese system aside from the name. And the big spurt of growth didn't start until Deng's market-based reforms of the '70s.

So a better way to put it would be "After its Marxist fantasy economics resulted in the starvation of more than forty million Chinese people, the government wisely switched to capitalism, which lifted hundreds of millions out of poverty."

Re: The Most Important Thing: Decline in poverty, illiteracy and disease

#54

Post by hwstar »

FelixP wrote: post #14
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #2

It's just insane how good this is. Yeah, the middle class is hurting (worldwide, or pretty close), but the bottom is escaping poverty at an amazing rate.

No. The middle class in the US and other highly developed nations is hurting, but by any global measure, this group of people is actually relatively wealthy. The global middle class has experienced an unprecedented level of growth and prosperity over the past 25+ years. Of course, this has in many cases come at the expense of the first group.

I agree. The standard of living in the first world countries will meet the third world countries in the middle. This explains why wages haven't increased significantly in the past 25 years in the US.

Where it gets interesting is when equilibrium has been reached.

Re: The Most Important Thing: Decline in poverty, illiteracy and disease

#55

Post by [deleted] »

manachar wrote: post #17
lurkinggrue wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Government can't do anything" meme tends to be pushed by organizations that actively want less government. The sort of groups that listen to people like Grover Norquest who said: "I don't want to abolish government. I simply want to reduce it to the size where I can drag it into the bathroom and drown it in the bathtub." While there is a lot to be said about the idea of efficiency in government it isn't the same as…

American progressives can be just as guilty, if less organized. They tend to view big business with suspicion and incorrectly think that the American government is hopelessly corrupt and in the pocket of "Big Business and/or Wall Street".

[deleted]

Re: The Most Important Thing: Decline in poverty, illiteracy and disease

#56

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

tsotha wrote: post #53
mazerackham wrote: post #21

Another big secret, is that the source of a lot of poverty being lifted is because of China. That's right, that terribly communist government suppressing its people and free speech, is actually responsible for lifting 500 million people out of poverty over the last 30 years. That is definitely a big secret of american media, and something that it neglects to report on, in favor of free speech violations, naval exerci…

>That's right, that terribly communist government suppressing its people and free speech, is actually responsible for lifting 500 million people out of poverty over the last 30 years. There isn't anything recognizably communist about the Chinese system aside from the name. And the big spurt of growth didn't start until Deng's market-based reforms of the '70s. So a better way to put it would be "After its Marxist fant…

That unrecognisably non-communist system still has huge elements of central planning, government control, censorship, and price fixing.

It's hardly a free market paradise.

If you want a free market paradise with minimal government, try Somalia.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/4017147.stm

Re: The Most Important Thing: Decline in poverty, illiteracy and disease

#57

Post by Frondo »

manachar wrote: post #17
lurkinggrue wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Government can't do anything" meme tends to be pushed by organizations that actively want less government. The sort of groups that listen to people like Grover Norquest who said: "I don't want to abolish government. I simply want to reduce it to the size where I can drag it into the bathroom and drown it in the bathtub." While there is a lot to be said about the idea of efficiency in government it isn't the same as…

American progressives can be just as guilty, if less organized. They tend to view big business with suspicion and incorrectly think that the American government is hopelessly corrupt and in the pocket of "Big Business and/or Wall Street".

No, I don't think I ever hear American progressives assert that they want less government.

Less corrupt government? Absolutely, but the idea that government is "too big" seems entirely in province of the contemporary right (and you can partition that up into the industrialists who want to abolish the EPA, the code-worded-racists who want to end welfare, the bootstrappers who want to privatize everything, etc).

Re: The Most Important Thing: Decline in poverty, illiteracy and disease

#58

Post by letitgo12345 »

beatpanda wrote: post #43
manachar wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

American progressives can be just as guilty, if less organized. They tend to view big business with suspicion and incorrectly think that the American government is hopelessly corrupt and in the pocket of "Big Business and/or Wall Street".

In what sense is that view incorrect? The cost of access to the political process in America is astronomically high and keeps increasing, and acquiring the amount of money it now takes to be competitive in an election requires adopting a set of positions that are friendly to whatever industries have the most money to give. What part of that analysis is wrong? What counterexample can you offer?

While money buys political access, a large part of the responsibility does rest with the voters (who are mostly ordinary people, not big money) who keep voting for reps (or don't vote) who support regressive policies. Also big money doesn't control the govt -- there are lots of times where they don't get their way -- immigration reform being a prime example where nativist sentiment has stalled it for more than a decade even though the business community is largely for it.

Re: The Most Important Thing: Decline in poverty, illiteracy and disease

#59

Post by [deleted] »

[deleted] wrote: post #55
manachar wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

American progressives can be just as guilty, if less organized. They tend to view big business with suspicion and incorrectly think that the American government is hopelessly corrupt and in the pocket of "Big Business and/or Wall Street".

[deleted]

[deleted]

Re: The Most Important Thing: Decline in poverty, illiteracy and disease

#60

Post by guelo »

manachar wrote: post #17
lurkinggrue wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Government can't do anything" meme tends to be pushed by organizations that actively want less government. The sort of groups that listen to people like Grover Norquest who said: "I don't want to abolish government. I simply want to reduce it to the size where I can drag it into the bathroom and drown it in the bathtub." While there is a lot to be said about the idea of efficiency in government it isn't the same as…

American progressives can be just as guilty, if less organized. They tend to view big business with suspicion and incorrectly think that the American government is hopelessly corrupt and in the pocket of "Big Business and/or Wall Street".

The environmental laws you mention happened more than 30 years ago. It sure seems like bigcos have gained the upperhand in the last generation.
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