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The Era of Automatic Facial Recognition and Surveillance Is Here

forbes.com

41–50 of 159 posts

Re: The Era of Automatic Facial Recognition and Surveillance Is Here

#41
post #6

A HN contest: Provide an elevator pitch, to completely non-technical end-users, that will make them aware of this issue and persuade them that it is important to them. Vote up the best ones. [EDIT: The goal is to persuade them about its dangers, not sell them something based on it] That elevator pitch is key. I have extensive knowledge about this issue but have a hard time coming up with it; I need to be prepared. Ch…

Automatic social network shortest-path finding: point your phone at someone and find out if you're friends-of-friends, if you went to the same school, worked at the same company once, etc.

Re: The Era of Automatic Facial Recognition and Surveillance Is Here

#42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is the DMV gonna start giving away my license to Home Depot? IIRC this already happens and businesses can buy DMV databases. > Is facebook going to torpedo their business by selling this info? Many businesses collect and sell this information. Where do all these online businesses, who charge users nothing, get their revenue? [EDIT: More simply said, that info arguably is the basis of the Internet economy] > why wou…

Seems like a massive amount of effort just to be a dick. They get all the info they could ever want from customer loyalty cards, this is a redundant and frankly useless waste of money.

I think it's unwise to underestimate your fellow humans' propensity to "be a dick", as you put it, even if they don't gain anything more than the satisfaction of treating others poorly.

Facial recognition + a database allows POWERFUL and fine grained discrimination!

Imagine being able to know ${Things} about people -- via analytics / The Internet -- whenever any prospective customer comes into your store.

You could refuse to do business with gay people, divorcees, adulterers, married people, transgender people, politicians, members of the opposing political party or religion, or even police officers with X number of complaints. You could exclude people from the wrong side of town, or who didn't go to the right schools, or whose parents were (or who themselves are) illegal immigrants.

Many of these things are Probably Legal (some are likely not), but most of them strike me as unjust treatment of others. The technology allows frightening things, and there are MANY people who would do so right now if given the ability. (Religious and political boundaries are one such place where people are quite willing to do so.)

I only touched on business owners. Now imagine that roving bands of jerks (or criminals) got their hands on the same technology or data, and could tell who was a stranger in town, or was more vulnerable than others, or fit their desired target criteria. It's pretty scary, and I'm sure that within ten years we'll hear stories of such abuse happening.

Re: The Era of Automatic Facial Recognition and Surveillance Is Here

#43

Perhaps the niqab (face-veil) will see a rise in popularity...

Nah, turns out that modern AI techniques are better than the brain at certain things. In this instance, the brain has huge amounts of volume dedicated to recognizing faces. AI don't have that same preference for faces; we can make AI recognize using any feature, including seemingly unlikely ones such as gait. A driverless car with no windows would probably do it, but then again the car itself will probably be bugged a la Samsung TVs.

Re: The Era of Automatic Facial Recognition and Surveillance Is Here

#44
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like a massive amount of effort just to be a dick. They get all the info they could ever want from customer loyalty cards, this is a redundant and frankly useless waste of money.

I think it's unwise to underestimate your fellow humans' propensity to "be a dick", as you put it, even if they don't gain anything more than the satisfaction of treating others poorly. Facial recognition + a database allows POWERFUL and fine grained discrimination! Imagine being able to know ${Things} about people -- via analytics / The Internet -- whenever any prospective customer comes into your store. You could r…

> I think it's unwise to underestimate your fellow humans' propensity to "be a dick"...

That tendency exists quite strongly in humans, yes. Unfortunate, but true. On the other hand, businesses also have the tendency to want to make money. If I've got a business, and I make it hard for group X to buy stuff from me, they're probably going to try to find someone else who wants more strongly to make money and/or less strongly to be a jerk. And that business will get their money, and I won't.

And there may be businesses that are okay with that. But it ought to be somewhat of a self-defeating behavior.

Note well: I am not claiming that this behavior is moral or legal.

The criminal aspects mentioned in your last paragraph is quite frightening, and more so because it is also quite probable...

Re: The Era of Automatic Facial Recognition and Surveillance Is Here

#45

Walk into a store, and the salesclerks will know your name. - they already do once you scan your store card The store’s cameras and computers will have figured out your identity, - store card and looked you up in both their store database and a commercial marketing database they’ve subscribed to. - store card again. They’ll know your name, - store card salary, - if you entered it and if you didn't lie when you filled…

Considering that Target can tell whether you're pregnant or not before you do based on your purchases, I'd assume that online habits encode your preferences a lot more strongly that one would like to think. More info on that weird pregnancy story: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/19/magazine/shopping-habits.h...

You've over stated things, Target makes the pregnancy prediction based on pregnancy related purchases, someone making those purchases is going to be aware they are pregnant. In the article, a father is outraged that his teenaged daughter received an ad for baby clothes and complained to a store manager, he didn't know his daughter was pregnant.

Re: The Era of Automatic Facial Recognition and Surveillance Is Here

#47

Walk into a store, and the salesclerks will know your name. - they already do once you scan your store card The store’s cameras and computers will have figured out your identity, - store card and looked you up in both their store database and a commercial marketing database they’ve subscribed to. - store card again. They’ll know your name, - store card salary, - if you entered it and if you didn't lie when you filled…

Considering that Target can tell whether you're pregnant or not before you do based on your purchases, I'd assume that online habits encode your preferences a lot more strongly that one would like to think. More info on that weird pregnancy story: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/19/magazine/shopping-habits.h...

They can't tell "before you do". They can tell before you tell people, but the woman needs to know she's pregnant before her habits change.

Re: The Era of Automatic Facial Recognition and Surveillance Is Here

#48
post #24

Walk into a store, and the salesclerks will know your name. - they already do once you scan your store card The store’s cameras and computers will have figured out your identity, - store card and looked you up in both their store database and a commercial marketing database they’ve subscribed to. - store card again. They’ll know your name, - store card salary, - if you entered it and if you didn't lie when you filled…

This is true, but I think it's an important distinction that store cards are typically opt-in (I haven't come across a store that requires such a card to shop there, except maybe Costco). A facial recognition system would, presumably, be automatic.

The cellphone trackers that stores already have are automatic, too. Sure, one could leave it in the car, but does anyone do that?

Re: The Era of Automatic Facial Recognition and Surveillance Is Here

#49
post #21

As someone with prosopagnosia (neurological inability to recognize faces) I find this incredibly frustrating. My everyday life would be immensely easier with assistive tech that told me the names of everyone I see. And now that the technology exists to develop such a useful device, what do we get instead? Mass societal surveillance.

I am no expert on this but the article suggested that the database of named photos was the hardest part to obtain for an individual. Since you would (probably) most value a database of people you have met before, a self generated database would be a good start to gaining access to this technology.

Right, I could definitely train existing facial recognition software on a database of people I've met. The problem is delivery; when I need this information, I'm not sitting at a computer. I need some kind of device, with a camera and a way to feed me the person's name real time, that I can reasonably wear in public without looking like a walking server closet. That's hard to hack together (just ask the Glass team).

Re: The Era of Automatic Facial Recognition and Surveillance Is Here

#50
post #6

A HN contest: Provide an elevator pitch, to completely non-technical end-users, that will make them aware of this issue and persuade them that it is important to them. Vote up the best ones. [EDIT: The goal is to persuade them about its dangers, not sell them something based on it] That elevator pitch is key. I have extensive knowledge about this issue but have a hard time coming up with it; I need to be prepared. Ch…

Did you know some businesses have the ability to instantly identify you by nothing more than physical features? Did you know the storage and exchange of that identifiable information can be used by businesses or governments to violate your rights and privacy? By the way, there is no regulation regarding the use of this information, nor can you do anything about it.

Have a nice day.

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