Global coalition to Facebook: “Authentic names” are dangerous for your users • Hacker News Board

Re: Global coalition to Facebook: “Authentic names” are dangerous for your users

#31

Post by throwaway6845 » Mon, Oct 05, 2015, 9:05 PM UTC

morgante wrote: post #21

I wish the EFF and others who are against using real names would at least acknowledge the drawbacks of pseudonyms and the proliferation of fake accounts and fake names which comes with them. The real name policy has huge benefits. I'm not constantly bombarded by fake friend requests like I am on Twitter, Skype, or any other platform which allows random usernames. Even more importantly, I can easily find the people in…

Agreed. I run a small-town community website. Instituting a real-name policy stopped the trolling overnight: people behave much more reasonably if they know they might meet the person they're yelling at in the street tomorrow.

The key is that our site aims to be solely a resource for the existing community (where people relate to each other through real names), not a virtual community in itself.

I certainly wouldn't argue that the web should be real-name only, but nor do I believe everyone always has an automatic right to post on privately-owned websites using pseudonyms.

Re: Global coalition to Facebook: “Authentic names” are dangerous for your users

#32

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Oct 05, 2015, 9:06 PM UTC

morgante wrote: post #21

I wish the EFF and others who are against using real names would at least acknowledge the drawbacks of pseudonyms and the proliferation of fake accounts and fake names which comes with them. The real name policy has huge benefits. I'm not constantly bombarded by fake friend requests like I am on Twitter, Skype, or any other platform which allows random usernames. Even more importantly, I can easily find the people in…

[deleted]

Re: Global coalition to Facebook: “Authentic names” are dangerous for your users

#33

Post by jawns » Mon, Oct 05, 2015, 9:06 PM UTC

pjc50 wrote: post #19

jawns wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sincerely curious ... how is a social network like Facebook, which is built around connecting you with your real-world friends and acquaintances, supposed to work if you can't require users to identify themselves in a meaningful way? The little "people you may know" widget is really useful, because it shows me names I recognize from my offline life. If it's just a random stream of pseudonyms and online handles, t…

Well, they're not using the name you know because they don't want you or other casual acquaintances to find them.

It seems like this sort of privacy control could be put in place without resorting to pseudonyms.

For instance: you register using your real name/"authentic identity", but you select a restrictive privacy option that says that your profile won't show up when people search for your name on Facebook; nobody can friend-request you; and all your posts and other info is visible to friends only.

Voila, you now have a private profile, but the people whom you are friends with on Facebook don't have to create a user script that replaces your pseudonym with the name they actually know you by.

Re: Global coalition to Facebook: “Authentic names” are dangerous for your users

#34

Post by gorena » Mon, Oct 05, 2015, 9:10 PM UTC

jawns wrote: post #33

pjc50 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, they're not using the name you know because they don't want you or other casual acquaintances to find them.

It seems like this sort of privacy control could be put in place without resorting to pseudonyms. For instance: you register using your real name/"authentic identity", but you select a restrictive privacy option that says that your profile won't show up when people search for your name on Facebook; nobody can friend-request you; and all your posts and other info is visible to friends only. Voila, you now have a priva…

I'm pretty sure that you can already do all of this. I can't currently find the option to entirely de-list from search, but I thought I had it on before.

Re: Global coalition to Facebook: “Authentic names” are dangerous for your users

#35

Post by greggman » Mon, Oct 05, 2015, 9:21 PM UTC

jawns wrote: post #7

1ris wrote: post #3

And in fact illegal in Germany and probably a hell lot of other places. I wonder if that gets enforced anytime soon.

I'm sincerely curious ... how is a social network like Facebook, which is built around connecting you with your real-world friends and acquaintances, supposed to work if you can't require users to identify themselves in a meaningful way? The little "people you may know" widget is really useful, because it shows me names I recognize from my offline life. If it's just a random stream of pseudonyms and online handles, t…

I know several people online by pseudonyms only. If I wanted to add them on facebook I'd add their pseudonym. I also know people who don't go by their real name in real life. I know John's that go by Sean. I know Richard's that go by Dick. I know another Richard that goes by Greg. I suspect that 95% of his friends don't know his "real" name is Richard. I also know 2 Cyrils that go by Rocky and I suspect only their very closest friends and family know their real names are Cyril the 3rd and Cyril the 4th.

I honestly don't understand why this matters to facebook. In the best case people make multiple accounts. One for friends and family, one for business, one for their sexy side, one for their hacker side, whatever. Now facebook gets to claim 4x the people and advertisers can better target ads to each account for each situation.

Re: Global coalition to Facebook: “Authentic names” are dangerous for your users

#36

Post by nathancahill » Mon, Oct 05, 2015, 9:25 PM UTC

jleehey wrote: post #30

oniTony wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not use actual Test Users for development? https://developers.facebook.com/docs/apps/test-users

I believe you're required to have a real, verified account in order to create and modify test users, and I think there are certain features that are blocked for test users.

More generally, to access and edit app settings.

Re: Global coalition to Facebook: “Authentic names” are dangerous for your users

#37

Post by toomuchtodo » Mon, Oct 05, 2015, 9:33 PM UTC

morgante wrote: post #21

I wish the EFF and others who are against using real names would at least acknowledge the drawbacks of pseudonyms and the proliferation of fake accounts and fake names which comes with them. The real name policy has huge benefits. I'm not constantly bombarded by fake friend requests like I am on Twitter, Skype, or any other platform which allows random usernames. Even more importantly, I can easily find the people in…

No downvote even if I disagree. Once your platform begins to become ubiquitous (Facebook Messenger), it starts to have certain responsibilities, similiar to a utility but not quite that far.

Now I'm prepared for the downvotes, but I don't think its wrong to expect certain behavior from tech companies in certain segments once they reach a particular size.

A compromise would be to allow Facebook users to get verified (similar to Twitter's verification), and then groups and communities could exclude non-verified profiles by default while allowing those non-verified accounts that they'd like to on a case by case basis.

Re: Global coalition to Facebook: “Authentic names” are dangerous for your users

#38

Post by ghaff » Mon, Oct 05, 2015, 9:35 PM UTC

qznc wrote: post #23

junto wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should read "The Circle". It is basically that and more.

I found The Circle entertaining. As an argument against Facebook (or Google,Amazon,etc) it just sets up a strawman. Not realistic enough. That politicians can be pressured into 24/7 live streaming is ridiculous. The Circle has no serious opponents, while in reality there are more powers which would acquire or destroy Facebook if they attempted something like that.

I was ready to stop reading The Circle after a bit because it was so over-the-top. However, as the book went on, I found that it kinda worked for me if read as a deliberately and wildly exaggerated cautionary tale parable of sorts--rather than as serious speculative fiction. Still wasn't enamored with it but possibly worth a read.

Re: Global coalition to Facebook: “Authentic names” are dangerous for your users

#39

Post by morgante » Mon, Oct 05, 2015, 9:35 PM UTC

throwaway6845 wrote: post #31

morgante wrote: post #21

I wish the EFF and others who are against using real names would at least acknowledge the drawbacks of pseudonyms and the proliferation of fake accounts and fake names which comes with them. The real name policy has huge benefits. I'm not constantly bombarded by fake friend requests like I am on Twitter, Skype, or any other platform which allows random usernames. Even more importantly, I can easily find the people in…

Agreed. I run a small-town community website. Instituting a real-name policy stopped the trolling overnight: people behave much more reasonably if they know they might meet the person they're yelling at in the street tomorrow. The key is that our site aims to be solely a resource for the existing community (where people relate to each other through real names), not a virtual community in itself. I certainly wouldn't…

> I certainly wouldn't argue that the web should be real-name only

100% agreed. The vast majority of the web is based around pseudonymous interaction (even this comment thread). I love that about the web, but I also appreciate Facebook creating one place to foster those real world connections.

Re: Global coalition to Facebook: “Authentic names” are dangerous for your users

#40

Post by rspeer » Mon, Oct 05, 2015, 9:39 PM UTC

morgante wrote: post #21

I wish the EFF and others who are against using real names would at least acknowledge the drawbacks of pseudonyms and the proliferation of fake accounts and fake names which comes with them. The real name policy has huge benefits. I'm not constantly bombarded by fake friend requests like I am on Twitter, Skype, or any other platform which allows random usernames. Even more importantly, I can easily find the people in…

This particular statement from the EFF is not in any way trying to convince Facebook that they shouldn't have a real names policy.

It's simply saying: Okay, you've got a real name policy. You should reform it in a few ways so that people can't use it for targeted silencing and harassment of groups they dislike.