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Deaths Draw Attention to Wall Street’s Grueling Pace

nytimes.com

41–50 of 87 posts

Re: Deaths Draw Attention to Wall Street’s Grueling Pace

#41
I have a friend who is a Market Maker on Wall St. He's very successful makes a lot of money, works very long, but he has a very low self esteem. He tells me "I don't know how to actually do anything of any use in the world." I don't really understand him but I think he ends up feeling like his life is worthless. At the end of the day he could be as rich as Midas but he hasn't figured out what life is worth even to himself.

Assuming your belly is full, I think if you're not curing cancer or something like that you'd better be doing something that makes you happy: the work itself has to be fun. Otherwise you could end up like this guy or my friend.

Re: Deaths Draw Attention to Wall Street’s Grueling Pace

#42
post #33
post #3

Meh. I can't imagine the mindset that would lead someone to sacrifice their entire existence on the pyre of working; what's the point of making big cash if you've got no time or people to enjoy it with? I think that these kind of aberrant/nauseating/maladapted pathological behaviors (working insane hours, money addiction) show a bewildering lack of wisdom that is intentionally selected for among the "most competitive…

I can't escape the odour of sour grapes in discussions like these, where people who could have gone into finance reassure themselves and each other that they made the right decision to take a less lucrative path through life.

Naturally I agree.

The question is better framed thus: who has taken the more lucrative path in living their life? Who has found burgeoning vitality rather than pecuniary richness? Who has traded what is priceless for what can be used to pay other prices?

Re: Deaths Draw Attention to Wall Street’s Grueling Pace

#43
post #3

Meh. I can't imagine the mindset that would lead someone to sacrifice their entire existence on the pyre of working; what's the point of making big cash if you've got no time or people to enjoy it with? I think that these kind of aberrant/nauseating/maladapted pathological behaviors (working insane hours, money addiction) show a bewildering lack of wisdom that is intentionally selected for among the "most competitive…

These people don't make an active choice to give their life to the company/firm. It's a series of small decisions that add up to a huge sacrifice. It's like boiling a frog. Nobody ever says when you sign up, oh, you'll have to skip Easter Dinner because you can't afford two hours off that week.

The trick is to create a culture where it is not only normal, but taken for granted, that you work all the time. They work with a bunch of other smart, capable people. They can't all be wrong can they? (yes, but it's easy to see why they can't see it).

So the mechanism of the slave driving isn't just someone sitting there telling you--work 100 hours a week or you are fired. It's by assigning you almost unlimited work and having a competitive environment where you look bad if you can't complete it.

So these people become their own slave drivers. They stay at work late without having to be asked. They make the choice themselves. It's a sick culture, but it makes their stockholders money. You actually feel bad when taking time off because you feel like you are falling behind.

Part of it is definitely the striver culture that elite education often encourages. You are supported to give full intensity and take any abuse to succeed.

However, I wouldn't write off all people like this off as sheep. I bet you'd be very surprised how you react under similar pressures. And certainly some tech companies employ similar tactics and have similar cultures of encouraging people to give 100% effort.

Another big factor in these sorts of jobs is that it's view as a temporary hardship. You do a stint and exit into the "good jobs" that aren't this insane. That causes people to try to tough it out. And they end up breaking before they bend.

Re: Deaths Draw Attention to Wall Street’s Grueling Pace

#44

I have a friend who is a Market Maker on Wall St. He's very successful makes a lot of money, works very long, but he has a very low self esteem. He tells me "I don't know how to actually do anything of any use in the world." I don't really understand him but I think he ends up feeling like his life is worthless. At the end of the day he could be as rich as Midas but he hasn't figured out what life is worth even to hi…

The funny thing is, when it boils down to it, many jobs in our society are superfluous... We survived without technology, with a less-developed finance sector, without cars and airplanes, yet here we are with entire sectors of the economy that probably aren't 'needed' for a happy life.

At least in finance you can get to a number where you can finally say 'fuck it', and go do what you really want to do...

Re: Deaths Draw Attention to Wall Street’s Grueling Pace

#46

A lot of good talent is wasted on Wall Street. Fortunately, most (who don't care for the lifestyle/can't hack it) get wise and leave. The hard thing is knowing when to exit.

> A lot of good talent is wasted on Wall Street.

Why do you say that? Finance funds most of society's ventures, the 'system' would look much different without the capital and services that the banking sector provides...

Re: Deaths Draw Attention to Wall Street’s Grueling Pace

#47
post #3

Meh. I can't imagine the mindset that would lead someone to sacrifice their entire existence on the pyre of working; what's the point of making big cash if you've got no time or people to enjoy it with? I think that these kind of aberrant/nauseating/maladapted pathological behaviors (working insane hours, money addiction) show a bewildering lack of wisdom that is intentionally selected for among the "most competitive…

This sentiment is shared by many displaced blue collar workers in SV and NYC. They see finance and big tech taking jobs and ruining the economy. In the bubble, status driven workers push themselves hard until completely burned out and jaded they are stuck in a depressing cycle. On the otherside of the spectrum, I find myself markedly depressed at having no legitimate career or contributions. One can only hope to find something fulfilling and find balance.

Re: Deaths Draw Attention to Wall Street’s Grueling Pace

#48
post #3

Meh. I can't imagine the mindset that would lead someone to sacrifice their entire existence on the pyre of working; what's the point of making big cash if you've got no time or people to enjoy it with? I think that these kind of aberrant/nauseating/maladapted pathological behaviors (working insane hours, money addiction) show a bewildering lack of wisdom that is intentionally selected for among the "most competitive…

You can think this through a few ways. One is that they see finance jobs as desirable jobs, focus their whole lives up to that point on getting the job, get it - and find it's horrible. What do you do then? Do you go back to all the people who were really proud at your achievements and tell them you're a failure? Another is that they really do think it gets better. If they can just make it through the first four or f…

> get it - and find it's horrible. What do you do then?

There are two tragedies in life. One is to lose your heart's desire. The other is to gain it.

Except, here's a situation that doubles up the tragedy.

You start off your youth, determined that the lack of money is what's stopping you from doing things that you really care about - things you would do in leisure. Pursuits of pleasure - art, music, altruism, atavistic quests (become a farmer?) and even hedonism.

But the sacrifice at the altar isn't entirely possible for everyone - the process demands that you survive a psychosis of sleeplessness, mixed with a caffeine dehydration, in an air-conditioned room, filled with fluorescent light with no hint of a dawn.

And then there's the superficial solidarity of everyone around you surviving this, without even a hint of complaints (furiously "ducking" as they call it).

Breaking out of it demands failure. And failure is hard to swallow for the best of the best, who are hit the hardest. Not having dealt with failure for 20 years makes it even harder to face up to failure & quit.

Attracting the brightest into the fold will naturally push up the numbers of those who'd rather die than fail.

Re: Deaths Draw Attention to Wall Street’s Grueling Pace

#49
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'Meh' this comment sequence. If I overreact, it's because these were at the top of comment thread when I caught the post, and (at the risk going Reddit on HN) this is pure Reddit ad hominem BS. Self-proclaimed übermenschen defy gravity in their own minds. Great. Have at it. Edit: Sorry, should have said 'self-imagined' rather than 'self-proclaimed.' Regardless, login in 20 years and let me know how it's worked out.

Even with your edit, I'm still confused as to what point you're trying to make. You seem to be calling out the parent comments on behavior, but your ending sentence makes it seem like you agree. The kicker is that you appear to do both in a fairly negative way, so proponents of either side of the argument might find something to disagree with in both tone and message, which is probably netting you some down votes.

You're right. I was trying to moderate my own overreaction. Tl;dr: Stupid greedy bitches! No, you're a stupid bitch, can't wait to see your unemployment app--because arrogant heartless bastards tend to do well, so what happened?

But I didn't want the down votes. So I didn't go there. I need to stay off HN on the weekends.

Luv ya!

Re: Deaths Draw Attention to Wall Street’s Grueling Pace

#50
post #32
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't think of any other motivation besides greed or addiction to power? Consider 1st generation college graduates from immigrant families who have the chance to singlehandedly lift their families out of poverty by accepting these jobs. That's not greed.

This in all likelihood describes 1%of the 1%. Just adding in a little perspective.

> This in all likelihood describes 1%of the 1%. Just adding in a little perspective.

It's way more than 1% of the young people slaving away in finance. Especially as finance has gotten less racist, a lot of high-achieving immigrant students go into it under pressure from their family.

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