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Deaths Draw Attention to Wall Street’s Grueling Pace

nytimes.com

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Re: Deaths Draw Attention to Wall Street’s Grueling Pace

#11

Post by pcunite »

bglazer wrote: post #8

I just finished the longest stint of work that I've had in my short career. Probably 80 hours for two weeks. I didn't really keep track. I have mixed feelings. I got a lot done. The quality of work that happened around 8-10pm was pretty low, but it got done. I did no physical activity and my stress levels were through the roof, which led to some moments of intense mental anguish. On the other hand, I felt a great sen…

I've done this too. I think it is dangerous, maybe even something that could become addictive. I know, the pressure to get the product out the door. If you truly have down time and can truly get away, maybe there is a way. But that is the trick, you may get trapped in that lifestyle and "just one more all nighter".

Re: Deaths Draw Attention to Wall Street’s Grueling Pace

#12

Post by asimilator »

> there is no evidence that the incidence of suicide by young professionals on Wall Street is higher than in any other industry.

Doesn't this undermine the premise of the article? The deaths are tragic, but if the suicide rate of Wall Street professionals is no higher than normal how can the suicides be tied to the "grueling pace" as opposed to whatever causes suicide in the general population?

Re: Deaths Draw Attention to Wall Street’s Grueling Pace

#14

Post by brainflake »

cryoshon wrote: post #3

Meh. I can't imagine the mindset that would lead someone to sacrifice their entire existence on the pyre of working; what's the point of making big cash if you've got no time or people to enjoy it with? I think that these kind of aberrant/nauseating/maladapted pathological behaviors (working insane hours, money addiction) show a bewildering lack of wisdom that is intentionally selected for among the "most competitive…

Wow, you can't even 'muster empathy' for people like this? I can understand how you wouldn't want to work these hours, but when the article is detailing someone who dies and your first comment is 'Meh.', that's absolutely abhorrent to me.

Re: Deaths Draw Attention to Wall Street’s Grueling Pace

#15

Post by onewaystreet »

FD3SA wrote: post #6
cryoshon wrote: post #3

Meh. I can't imagine the mindset that would lead someone to sacrifice their entire existence on the pyre of working; what's the point of making big cash if you've got no time or people to enjoy it with? I think that these kind of aberrant/nauseating/maladapted pathological behaviors (working insane hours, money addiction) show a bewildering lack of wisdom that is intentionally selected for among the "most competitive…

Absolutely on point. What always amazes me about these "super-lemmings" is that they are so unaware that they are being thoroughly exploited. They don't understand basic economics, that if you have zero leisure time, all of your earnings are for nothing. I'm sure their goals are some variation of: "I'll work 120 hour weeks for 5 years straight to make a seven figure nest egg, then retire off the interest forever." Th…

For the most part the financial industry doesn't give its people much of a choice. Finance is much more hierarchical than tech. You either work 120 hour weeks for 5 years straight and make it up to the VP/Director level or you stay as an analyst/associate (or burn out).

Re: Deaths Draw Attention to Wall Street’s Grueling Pace

#16

Post by [deleted] »

cryoshon wrote: post #3

Meh. I can't imagine the mindset that would lead someone to sacrifice their entire existence on the pyre of working; what's the point of making big cash if you've got no time or people to enjoy it with? I think that these kind of aberrant/nauseating/maladapted pathological behaviors (working insane hours, money addiction) show a bewildering lack of wisdom that is intentionally selected for among the "most competitive…

[deleted]

Re: Deaths Draw Attention to Wall Street’s Grueling Pace

#17

Post by pm90 »

asimilator wrote: post #12

> there is no evidence that the incidence of suicide by young professionals on Wall Street is higher than in any other industry. Doesn't this undermine the premise of the article? The deaths are tragic, but if the suicide rate of Wall Street professionals is no higher than normal how can the suicides be tied to the "grueling pace" as opposed to whatever causes suicide in the general population?

For one thing, the people that work on Wall Street are highly educated, mostly Ivy League types (from the article). I guess the premise is that if you were smart/rich enough to get that, society expected you to succeed spectacularly, not jump to your death. i.e. the expectation is that the suicide rate be negligible.

Re: Deaths Draw Attention to Wall Street’s Grueling Pace

#18

Post by mattzito »

cryoshon wrote: post #3

Meh. I can't imagine the mindset that would lead someone to sacrifice their entire existence on the pyre of working; what's the point of making big cash if you've got no time or people to enjoy it with? I think that these kind of aberrant/nauseating/maladapted pathological behaviors (working insane hours, money addiction) show a bewildering lack of wisdom that is intentionally selected for among the "most competitive…

You can think this through a few ways. One is that they see finance jobs as desirable jobs, focus their whole lives up to that point on getting the job, get it - and find it's horrible. What do you do then? Do you go back to all the people who were really proud at your achievements and tell them you're a failure?

Another is that they really do think it gets better. If they can just make it through the first four or five years, they can go from 80 to 50 hours, and then if they get to MD, they can get down to 40-50. In the meantime, they're making great money, they can enjoy what exists of their personal lives, if they just get past that first couple years.

Characterizing these folks as "spineless" is perhaps accurate for some, but in the end, reductionist. A better conversation to have would be to ask:

- Are the same number (proportionally) of people committing suicide in finance today the same as 15 years ago?

- If not, why today? What's different about today?

- What's to be done about it?

Re: Deaths Draw Attention to Wall Street’s Grueling Pace

#19

Post by a-dub »

cryoshon wrote: post #3

Meh. I can't imagine the mindset that would lead someone to sacrifice their entire existence on the pyre of working; what's the point of making big cash if you've got no time or people to enjoy it with? I think that these kind of aberrant/nauseating/maladapted pathological behaviors (working insane hours, money addiction) show a bewildering lack of wisdom that is intentionally selected for among the "most competitive…

Double meh.

I think you're pretty much on point, until your last paragraph, which seems pretty childish itself if you ask me.

Lots of people make all sorts of bad choices, and yes, sometimes they result in terrible outcomes. It's important to analyze the choices of others (which you have done, fairly well) to learn from them but it's also always important to muster empathy regardless of whatever path they have taken.

Choose not to do so and you may find yourself blinded by the allure of logical oversimplification as you walk a path down towards some pretty maladaptive behaviors yourself.

Re: Deaths Draw Attention to Wall Street’s Grueling Pace

#20

Post by [deleted] »

brainflake wrote: post #14
cryoshon wrote: post #3

Meh. I can't imagine the mindset that would lead someone to sacrifice their entire existence on the pyre of working; what's the point of making big cash if you've got no time or people to enjoy it with? I think that these kind of aberrant/nauseating/maladapted pathological behaviors (working insane hours, money addiction) show a bewildering lack of wisdom that is intentionally selected for among the "most competitive…

Wow, you can't even 'muster empathy' for people like this? I can understand how you wouldn't want to work these hours, but when the article is detailing someone who dies and your first comment is 'Meh.', that's absolutely abhorrent to me.

[deleted]
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