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In Some Cultures People with Schizophrenia Like the Voices They Hear

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Re: In Some Cultures People with Schizophrenia Like the Voices They Hear

#21
This is interesting! Especially the notion that some regions have predominantly helping "voices"!

This brings me to a crazy idea - can we think of any test that would allow us to decide whether indeed somebody else is using those brains? I.e. if we hypothetically assume we are living in a kind of simulation/virtual world/etc., there might be some number of agents outside directly interfering with the running of the world and a person suffering from schizophrenia could be the one directly affected by such an actor.

If we are indeed in something akin to a "virtual machine", allowing our world to be "interrupted" at any time, outside tampered with the intent of directing events towards a desired outcome, can we somehow detect this kind of tampering?

If we assume there is a VM we are in, can we computationally recognize that by constructing some problem that can reveal the nature of our universe? In other words, leaving the assumption the world is physical behind and instead operating under assumption the world is actually computational.

It's interesting that some mystics or philosophers hint at computational parts, like the nature of time by Augustine of Hippo from 4th century AD(!), or Emmerich mentioning a "Google"-like search performed inside Godhead etc. I am curious what the various cultures discovered regarding such computability and if we indeed can bring pieces of mosaic together and test it out? Is what we call "magic" basically invoking some undocumented services of the world's hypervisor?

Re: In Some Cultures People with Schizophrenia Like the Voices They Hear

#22
post #12

Well, some obvious probable historic figures who may have had more supportive cultural backgrounds include - Abraham, whose voice first said kill your son, then changed its mind. - Joan of Arc - who gave surprisingly good military advice - presumably every "spirit guide" There must be more examples, but hard to think of them

- Socrates - (wikipedia) Perhaps the most interesting facet of this is Socrates' reliance on what the Greeks called his "daimōnic sign", an averting (ἀποτρεπτικός apotreptikos) inner voice Socrates heard only when he was about to make a mistake. It was this sign that prevented Socrates from entering into politics. In the Phaedrus, we are told Socrates considered this to be a form of "divine madness", the sort of insa…

Interesting I did not know that. Thank you.

Would be useful if it truly was a "divine dialog".

You look like you are about to have an affair that will trigger divorce. "Are you sure? Y/N"

Re: In Some Cultures People with Schizophrenia Like the Voices They Hear

#23
I find it fascinating to try to elucidate what exactly that "inner voice" we hear is, and why we consider it less of a hallucination than other "hallucinatory" voices. Because "I" control it? But then who is the I?

Related to meditation/mindfulness, I like to try to "get in front of" the inner voice. If I control it, I should be able to know what words it will use before it "speaks" them, right? I find if direct my attention to my inner voice, I can begin to sense the ideas and words just before they're internally spoken, but that attention tends to disrupt the normal monkey-mind rambling of words, or to cause me to switch to a more internal/less linear and concrete/more wordless mode of thought.

But in the end, other than what seems a relatively illusory sense of "control" over "the" voice, I'm not sure I understand the supposed difference between our internal monologue and "hearing voices", beyond the stigma or negativity of it (but doesn't most people's internal monologue get pretty negative sometimes?)

Re: In Some Cultures People with Schizophrenia Like the Voices They Hear

#24
post #23

I find it fascinating to try to elucidate what exactly that "inner voice" we hear is, and why we consider it less of a hallucination than other "hallucinatory" voices. Because "I" control it? But then who is the I? Related to meditation/mindfulness, I like to try to "get in front of" the inner voice. If I control it, I should be able to know what words it will use before it "speaks" them, right? I find if direct my a…

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Re: In Some Cultures People with Schizophrenia Like the Voices They Hear

#25
post #24
post #23

I find it fascinating to try to elucidate what exactly that "inner voice" we hear is, and why we consider it less of a hallucination than other "hallucinatory" voices. Because "I" control it? But then who is the I? Related to meditation/mindfulness, I like to try to "get in front of" the inner voice. If I control it, I should be able to know what words it will use before it "speaks" them, right? I find if direct my a…

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It's actually addressed in the paper; that's a real oversimplification of what people "hearing voices" are actually experiencing.

Listening to people talk about their voices, one is struck by the variety of the human voice-hearing experience. People experience many phenomena (Tuttle, 1902). They hear scratching and whispering and murmurs loud enough to hear but too indistinct to under-stand. They hear noise that resolves into voices, so that words seem to slough off cars as they pass. They are sometimes clear and precise about exactly what they hear and some-times frustratingly vague. They report voices they clearly identify as external and voices they hear in their heads but do not experience as their own thoughts and thoughts and images that seem neither internal nor external but feel somehow impressed upon their awareness from outside. They talk about recognizing a single voice that seems to come out of more than one person, and about real people who say things they hear, but are not the words those people spoke. (“I know you are not speaking words of sex,” one man said, “but when you speak, words of sex are what I hear.”) In each of our settings, people reported this broad range of phenomena.

Re: In Some Cultures People with Schizophrenia Like the Voices They Hear

#27
post #25
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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It's actually addressed in the paper; that's a real oversimplification of what people "hearing voices" are actually experiencing. Listening to people talk about their voices, one is struck by the variety of the human voice-hearing experience. People experience many phenomena (Tuttle, 1902). They hear scratching and whispering and murmurs loud enough to hear but too indistinct to under-stand. They hear noise that reso…

Huh. Some of that sounds a bit like those "deep dream" pictures from that neural network Google was experimenting with.

Re: In Some Cultures People with Schizophrenia Like the Voices They Hear

#30
Many of you are romanticizing "hearing voices" but is mostly because you don't know what that's really like, is not like talking to the mirror or "hearing your conscience". I had a friend with Schizophrenia and she cried every single day, many times she wanted to die just to make her pain go away, she tried every possible drug (legal or otherwise), the level of unrest and anxiety that she had to go through is not something I desire even upon the worst human beings.

I think that just like the brain is likely the most powerful machine in the world, when it goes bad is also the most damaging machine in the world for the person who has it.

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