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The Delinquent Borrowers Leading a Student Loans Revolt

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Re: The Delinquent Borrowers Leading a Student Loans Revolt

#51

Post by icewater0 »

saturdaysaint wrote: post #28
WBrentWilliams wrote: post #22

I like the way that these articles and the comments ignore the elephant in the room: The cost of living while attending college. Here is a data point for my local State University. I happen to work there, so I can verify that these numbers are pretty much correct. You can pay cheaper rent, but you'll pay back the difference in car mileage and/or roommate drama. Tuition is (roughly) 40 percent of the cost. What really…

The "books and supplies" section would be interesting to break down. How much of it is due to needlessly churning out new editions to cut off the used book market? In the age of the iPad, shouldn't someone be producing first rate, open source textbooks in core subjects? It's a pittance of the total, but that $1,200 (x4) could still add up to a lot with interest.

> How much of it is due to needlessly churning out new editions to cut off the used book market?

And there is all the more incentive when the instructor requires a book he has written himself.

Re: The Delinquent Borrowers Leading a Student Loans Revolt

#52

Post by icewater0 »

I think part of "the system" involves learning and lending institutions informally forecasting what the lifetime return on a student's education will be, and then attempting to maximize the return on the student loan(s) as an investment on those future earnings.

The learning and lending institutions clearly fucked up big-time in their forecasting, along with everyone else who was irrationally exuberant in their optimism about the future economy.

Now they are stuck between students on one hand (who have been sold a bill of goods and are seriously pissed about the pittance left over after their loan payments, if they're able to pay back at all), and the investors on the other hand (which includes not only evil bankers' money but also people who have been sacrificing in good faith for decades to contribute to their retirement accounts).

So the stage is set for a nice messy society-destroying generational war that should distract everyone from the forecasting mistakes.

Re: The Delinquent Borrowers Leading a Student Loans Revolt

#53

Post by notacoward »

littletimmy wrote: post #50
notacoward wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just about who's better or worse off. It's about the basic principles of meeting one's obligations and of applying the law equally. Would you be equally flippant about a law allowing any other group to shed their obligations without consequences? Bankers, perhaps? Or members of any ethnic group other than your own? It wouldn't affect you directly, as you'd be neither the debtor nor the creditor. Those people…

"The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread." - Anatole France To hell with your laws when they serve to oppress.

Such a binary either/or kind of thinking. Reductionist, too. Did it ever occur to you that there are better and worse ways to deal with bad laws, or bad application of laws? Anarchy is a markedly inferior alternative which every time in history has only enabled a new set of oligarchs to rise.

Re: The Delinquent Borrowers Leading a Student Loans Revolt

#54

Post by pkaye »

littletimmy wrote: post #36

One way to deal with the student loans crisis is for a nationwide student loan bailout. You don't have to erase the loans, just refinance them at a much lower interest rate. Currently the rate is 7%, which is just insane. For a virtually no-risk loan, which cannot even be discharged in default, that is a terribly high rate. Refinancing will be a transfer of wealth from the rich to the poor. Good for the economy, shor…

I would be okay with this but other things need reform. They need to cut down on bloated middle management layer in colleges. They need to cut out the shitty diploma mills that don't give graduates much success in getting jobs after graduating.

Re: The Delinquent Borrowers Leading a Student Loans Revolt

#55

Post by GFK_of_xmaspast »

seibelj wrote: post #24
Rainymood wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Education used to be 'free' here in The Netherlands (certain amount of money each month for students). They recently turned this into a full fledged loan. Although the interest is very low it dramatically changes how students approach studies and immediately start to think in terms of ROI ... I fear for the future of Dutch education. I'm glad I just wrapped up my undergrad and am currently borrowing as well for my Ma…

I think in the USA college is too expensive, but I'm not convinced it should be free. I like the idea of students actually having some skin in the game. Also I don't want tax dollars to pay for someone to study poetry for 4 years for free. You'll get into a situation like Norway, where it takes a master's to get a foot in the door, and no one gets a job until they are 30.

> Also I don't want tax dollars to pay for someone to study poetry for 4 years for free.

I do. Society needs poets.

Re: The Delinquent Borrowers Leading a Student Loans Revolt

#56

Post by GFK_of_xmaspast »

cheriot wrote: post #13
Camillo wrote: post #9

The absurd student loan system is what fueled tuition inflation in America. It needs to be abolished.

Do poor students not get to go to college anymore or do you have another system in mind?

How about "free tuition for everybody, like they used to have in California."

Re: The Delinquent Borrowers Leading a Student Loans Revolt

#57

Post by pvaldes »

seibelj wrote: post #24
Rainymood wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Education used to be 'free' here in The Netherlands (certain amount of money each month for students). They recently turned this into a full fledged loan. Although the interest is very low it dramatically changes how students approach studies and immediately start to think in terms of ROI ... I fear for the future of Dutch education. I'm glad I just wrapped up my undergrad and am currently borrowing as well for my Ma…

I think in the USA college is too expensive, but I'm not convinced it should be free. I like the idea of students actually having some skin in the game. Also I don't want tax dollars to pay for someone to study poetry for 4 years for free. You'll get into a situation like Norway, where it takes a master's to get a foot in the door, and no one gets a job until they are 30.

Take in mind that music industry could not exist without poetry. A successful song with fine lyrics can have a huge impact in the economy.

Re: The Delinquent Borrowers Leading a Student Loans Revolt

#58

Post by [deleted] »

chimeracoder wrote: post #45
littletimmy wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know right! Someone else would be better off without making you worse off... The horror! If I can't have it, they can't!

> Someone else would be better off without making you worse off That money doesn't come from nowhere; someone is paying for it. Student loans are already provided at below-market interest rates[0], which means they're being subsidized by taxpayers, either explicitly or implicitly. [0] Not all student loans, but the majority if not all of undergraduate federal student loans

[deleted]

Re: The Delinquent Borrowers Leading a Student Loans Revolt

#59

Post by overdrivetg »

pvaldes wrote: post #57
seibelj wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think in the USA college is too expensive, but I'm not convinced it should be free. I like the idea of students actually having some skin in the game. Also I don't want tax dollars to pay for someone to study poetry for 4 years for free. You'll get into a situation like Norway, where it takes a master's to get a foot in the door, and no one gets a job until they are 30.

Take in mind that music industry could not exist without poetry. A successful song with fine lyrics can have a huge impact in the economy.

Imma let you finish, but http://seatsmart.com/blog/lyric-intelligence/

Re: The Delinquent Borrowers Leading a Student Loans Revolt

#60

Post by thescribe »

littletimmy wrote: post #50
notacoward wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just about who's better or worse off. It's about the basic principles of meeting one's obligations and of applying the law equally. Would you be equally flippant about a law allowing any other group to shed their obligations without consequences? Bankers, perhaps? Or members of any ethnic group other than your own? It wouldn't affect you directly, as you'd be neither the debtor nor the creditor. Those people…

"The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread." - Anatole France To hell with your laws when they serve to oppress.

But is it clear this this law oppresses?
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