The Delinquent Borrowers Leading a Student Loans Revolt • Hacker News Board

Re: The Delinquent Borrowers Leading a Student Loans Revolt

#21

Post by Rainymood » Sun, Oct 04, 2015, 1:15 PM UTC

m_fayer wrote: post #18

tomohawk wrote: post #15

Borrowing money is risky, and includes risks beyond a straight up cost/benefit analysis. It also makes the borrow more vulnerable (not just to the lender, but to others as well). It should never be entered into lightly. I sympathize with these folks who have gotten themselves into this situation, but they did make the choice of their own free will. If they didn't do a proper analysis ahead of time, it doesn't seem fa…

For those trying to escape poverty, disadvantaged teenagers must choose between debt and the permanent surrender of their hopes and dreams. Hardly a situation where the borrower can be expected to make a dispassionate calculation, nor is it a situation where there's a clearly correct course to be found.

Education used to be 'free' here in The Netherlands (certain amount of money each month for students). They recently turned this into a full fledged loan. Although the interest is very low it dramatically changes how students approach studies and immediately start to think in terms of ROI ... I fear for the future of Dutch education. I'm glad I just wrapped up my undergrad and am currently borrowing as well for my Master's but thankfully (I'm one of the few) who have 'great' career prospects.

The American system is really really screwed up if you are trying to escape poverty.

Re: The Delinquent Borrowers Leading a Student Loans Revolt

#22

Post by WBrentWilliams » Sun, Oct 04, 2015, 1:17 PM UTC

I like the way that these articles and the comments ignore the elephant in the room: The cost of living while attending college.

Here is a data point for my local State University. I happen to work there, so I can verify that these numbers are pretty much correct. You can pay cheaper rent, but you'll pay back the difference in car mileage and/or roommate drama.

Tuition is (roughly) 40 percent of the cost. What really drives up the student debt is the cost of living. If we really wanted to do something about student loan debt, I think we'd do better to apply the same political pressure to the cost of living as we do to the rate of tuition.

Indiana University [1] Tuition: $10,388 Room and board: $9,794 Books and supplies: $1,230 Transportation: $1,030 Personal Expenses: $2,096

[1] http://admissions.indiana.edu/cost-financial-aid/tuition-fee...

Re: The Delinquent Borrowers Leading a Student Loans Revolt

#23

Post by nemo44x » Sun, Oct 04, 2015, 1:21 PM UTC

cheriot wrote: post #13

Camillo wrote: post #9

The absurd student loan system is what fueled tuition inflation in America. It needs to be abolished.

Do poor students not get to go to college anymore or do you have another system in mind?

Work and save money before you enter a University. If you work and save for 2 years after high school you gain many advantages:

1) You will save some money to pay for school. 2) Because you are a bit older a new world of grants are available to you since you are returning to education. 3) Because your income will probably be fairly low you will qualify for more grants due to this fact. 4) Gives you time to figure out what you want to go to school for and possibly make you take it more seriously when you start.

Another option is to join the military and qualify for a lot of additional grants that way. 4 years of service opens a lot of doors. There are many non-combat roles available.

There are many ways for the poor to advance themselves and not cripple themselves financially for the next 40 years.

Re: The Delinquent Borrowers Leading a Student Loans Revolt

#24

Post by seibelj » Sun, Oct 04, 2015, 1:39 PM UTC

Rainymood wrote: post #21

m_fayer wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those trying to escape poverty, disadvantaged teenagers must choose between debt and the permanent surrender of their hopes and dreams. Hardly a situation where the borrower can be expected to make a dispassionate calculation, nor is it a situation where there's a clearly correct course to be found.

Education used to be 'free' here in The Netherlands (certain amount of money each month for students). They recently turned this into a full fledged loan. Although the interest is very low it dramatically changes how students approach studies and immediately start to think in terms of ROI ... I fear for the future of Dutch education. I'm glad I just wrapped up my undergrad and am currently borrowing as well for my Ma…

I think in the USA college is too expensive, but I'm not convinced it should be free. I like the idea of students actually having some skin in the game. Also I don't want tax dollars to pay for someone to study poetry for 4 years for free. You'll get into a situation like Norway, where it takes a master's to get a foot in the door, and no one gets a job until they are 30.

Re: The Delinquent Borrowers Leading a Student Loans Revolt

#25

Post by UserRights » Sun, Oct 04, 2015, 1:44 PM UTC

Free Education is the primary attribute of a free and cultivated society. If you are living in a primitive country with no free (+higher) education, all available resources should be focused on reaching this goal as the most important evolutionary step.

Many underdeveloped societies and failed states can be identified by looking at the education situation. In the worst cases education is held hostage by a leading group of brutal oligarchs that are raping education into a "business-model" - these societies will need a lot of help from other nations to overcome the dark neandertaler age they are stuck in and it is important to teach them about the basic abilities of Homo Sapiens Sapiens - solidarity, compassion and love.

Good Luck!

Re: The Delinquent Borrowers Leading a Student Loans Revolt

#26

Post by UserRights » Sun, Oct 04, 2015, 1:51 PM UTC

seibelj wrote: post #24

Rainymood wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Education used to be 'free' here in The Netherlands (certain amount of money each month for students). They recently turned this into a full fledged loan. Although the interest is very low it dramatically changes how students approach studies and immediately start to think in terms of ROI ... I fear for the future of Dutch education. I'm glad I just wrapped up my undergrad and am currently borrowing as well for my Ma…

I think in the USA college is too expensive, but I'm not convinced it should be free. I like the idea of students actually having some skin in the game. Also I don't want tax dollars to pay for someone to study poetry for 4 years for free. You'll get into a situation like Norway, where it takes a master's to get a foot in the door, and no one gets a job until they are 30.

Compared to USA Norway has a very high living standard and an extremely good social care system, USA is ages behind that, really very much behind. Also participation in politics and society is much better organized and more effective than what we see in the pseudo-democratic system that USA represents today.

So free eduction may play a role in producing positive results for the whole society. Also maybe the poets are more important to this than a person from a country where no free education is available can understand.

Please also read about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome

Re: The Delinquent Borrowers Leading a Student Loans Revolt

#27

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Oct 04, 2015, 1:52 PM UTC

tomohawk wrote: post #15

Borrowing money is risky, and includes risks beyond a straight up cost/benefit analysis. It also makes the borrow more vulnerable (not just to the lender, but to others as well). It should never be entered into lightly. I sympathize with these folks who have gotten themselves into this situation, but they did make the choice of their own free will. If they didn't do a proper analysis ahead of time, it doesn't seem fa…

[deleted]

Re: The Delinquent Borrowers Leading a Student Loans Revolt

#28

Post by saturdaysaint » Sun, Oct 04, 2015, 1:57 PM UTC

WBrentWilliams wrote: post #22

I like the way that these articles and the comments ignore the elephant in the room: The cost of living while attending college. Here is a data point for my local State University. I happen to work there, so I can verify that these numbers are pretty much correct. You can pay cheaper rent, but you'll pay back the difference in car mileage and/or roommate drama. Tuition is (roughly) 40 percent of the cost. What really…

The "books and supplies" section would be interesting to break down. How much of it is due to needlessly churning out new editions to cut off the used book market? In the age of the iPad, shouldn't someone be producing first rate, open source textbooks in core subjects?

It's a pittance of the total, but that $1,200 (x4) could still add up to a lot with interest.

Re: The Delinquent Borrowers Leading a Student Loans Revolt

#29

Post by rch » Sun, Oct 04, 2015, 2:02 PM UTC

seibelj wrote: post #24

Rainymood wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Education used to be 'free' here in The Netherlands (certain amount of money each month for students). They recently turned this into a full fledged loan. Although the interest is very low it dramatically changes how students approach studies and immediately start to think in terms of ROI ... I fear for the future of Dutch education. I'm glad I just wrapped up my undergrad and am currently borrowing as well for my Ma…

I think in the USA college is too expensive, but I'm not convinced it should be free. I like the idea of students actually having some skin in the game. Also I don't want tax dollars to pay for someone to study poetry for 4 years for free. You'll get into a situation like Norway, where it takes a master's to get a foot in the door, and no one gets a job until they are 30.

> Also I don't want tax dollars to pay for someone to study poetry for 4 years for free.

In a certain sense you already are, by indirectly bearing the costs of widespread loan defaults. At least the government is in a position to effectively address the overabundance of worthless degrees being issued.

Re: The Delinquent Borrowers Leading a Student Loans Revolt

#30

Post by douche » Sun, Oct 04, 2015, 2:06 PM UTC

I have to be honest, if some kind of student-loan amnesty ever goes into effect, I'll be a little pissed that I prioritized paying mine off with my earnings for the first half-dozen years out of school. Just imagine what I could have done with those tens of thousands of dollars instead...