DARE: The Anti-Drug Program That Never Actually Worked • Hacker News Board

Re: DARE: The Anti-Drug Program That Never Actually Worked

#121

Post by Rotten194 » Sat, Oct 03, 2015, 11:29 PM UTC

Houshalter wrote: post #117

pantalaimon wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> anything with that powerful an effect on the mind is concerning. I find that statement absurd, anything with an effect that powerful should be cherished! Would life be desirable if it were stripped from all emotions, as they too have a powerful effect on the mind? Even if you agreed to that, it wouldn't be feasible as we are biological creatures and not pure rational beings. Denying that our biological self exists,…

I believe those 9 people wasted their lives. Religion isn't remotely rational and is a plague on society. The fact that a single experience with a drug can cause people to completely devote themselves to it is terrifying . What if it became widespread and our society became super religious? What other irrational things can it convince people of? I don't know if they should be banned or not. I'm just saying they are n…

That's an incredibly narrow-minded view, and I'm not a religious person either.

Re: DARE: The Anti-Drug Program That Never Actually Worked

#122

Post by pantalaimon » Sat, Oct 03, 2015, 11:39 PM UTC

Houshalter wrote: post #117

pantalaimon wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> anything with that powerful an effect on the mind is concerning. I find that statement absurd, anything with an effect that powerful should be cherished! Would life be desirable if it were stripped from all emotions, as they too have a powerful effect on the mind? Even if you agreed to that, it wouldn't be feasible as we are biological creatures and not pure rational beings. Denying that our biological self exists,…

I believe those 9 people wasted their lives. Religion isn't remotely rational and is a plague on society. The fact that a single experience with a drug can cause people to completely devote themselves to it is terrifying . What if it became widespread and our society became super religious? What other irrational things can it convince people of? I don't know if they should be banned or not. I'm just saying they are n…

What goal is there in life other than living a happy, a good life?

Why do you condemn people that find something different to help them with that than you?

There is a difference in having a spiritual experience and merely following a ritual for the sake of the ritual.

It anything, more widespread LSD usage would make people less religious by your definition.

Re: DARE: The Anti-Drug Program That Never Actually Worked

#123

Post by qmalxp » Sun, Oct 04, 2015, 2:38 AM UTC

astazangasta wrote: post #109

qmalxp wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's a bit misleading to simply say "LSD is great and you should try it". It can be interesting, but also can be scary as fuck, and you should be in a good place mentally before trying it.

"Snorkeling is great and you should try it," is a similar statement I might make with no qualifications or equivocation from you. Many pleasurable activities have attendant dangers that you should be aware of before engaging in them. Drugs are no different, except we surround them with the stink of moral judgment and refuse to educate people on how to use them safely.

The difference is most people snorkeling for the first time do it with an instructor who is very much interested in their well-being. I don't think the guy who sells you LSD is gonna lose sleep if you happen to develop a lifelong mental condition.

Re: DARE: The Anti-Drug Program That Never Actually Worked

#124

Post by GhotiFish » Sun, Oct 04, 2015, 2:48 AM UTC

ISL wrote: post #15

As a counterpoint, I found DARE to be a useful and worldly course. I probably wasn't the target audience, as an introverted sciency-type, but the class gave me a survey of the various drugs on the market and an introduction to a vocabulary with which I'd had no contact. When interactions with drugs touched closer friends in subsequent years, I feel that I was better prepared than I would've been without DARE. Anecdot…

Did you actually refuse treatment from a doctor because the cough medicine contained codeine? Your parents let you get away with that?

Re: DARE: The Anti-Drug Program That Never Actually Worked

#125

Post by Houshalter » Sun, Oct 04, 2015, 6:00 AM UTC

pantalaimon wrote: post #122

Houshalter wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe those 9 people wasted their lives. Religion isn't remotely rational and is a plague on society. The fact that a single experience with a drug can cause people to completely devote themselves to it is terrifying . What if it became widespread and our society became super religious? What other irrational things can it convince people of? I don't know if they should be banned or not. I'm just saying they are n…

What goal is there in life other than living a happy, a good life? Why do you condemn people that find something different to help them with that than you? There is a difference in having a spiritual experience and merely following a ritual for the sake of the ritual. It anything, more widespread LSD usage would make people less religious by your definition.

Who says they lived a happy life? Who says they wouldn't have lived a happy life otherwise?

We don't know that. All we know is that the drug made them become obsessed with something irrational.

Would you take something like that? Would you want something like that to become widespread? Do you want a society that is far more religious and devoted to their religion?

Re: DARE: The Anti-Drug Program That Never Actually Worked

#126

Post by Houshalter » Sun, Oct 04, 2015, 6:03 AM UTC

Rotten194 wrote: post #121

Houshalter wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe those 9 people wasted their lives. Religion isn't remotely rational and is a plague on society. The fact that a single experience with a drug can cause people to completely devote themselves to it is terrifying . What if it became widespread and our society became super religious? What other irrational things can it convince people of? I don't know if they should be banned or not. I'm just saying they are n…

That's an incredibly narrow-minded view, and I'm not a religious person either.

Call me narrow minded if you like. The implications of such a drug are terrifying. Do you want a society that is far more religious? Where people are completely devoted to their religions and actually believe in them?

And on a personal level, would you want to take such a drug? Knowing it can convince you of something irrational and change your entire life path for the worse?

Re: DARE: The Anti-Drug Program That Never Actually Worked

#127

Post by c23gooey » Sun, Oct 04, 2015, 7:41 PM UTC

Houshalter wrote: post #125

pantalaimon wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What goal is there in life other than living a happy, a good life? Why do you condemn people that find something different to help them with that than you? There is a difference in having a spiritual experience and merely following a ritual for the sake of the ritual. It anything, more widespread LSD usage would make people less religious by your definition.

Who says they lived a happy life? Who says they wouldn't have lived a happy life otherwise? We don't know that. All we know is that the drug made them become obsessed with something irrational. Would you take something like that? Would you want something like that to become widespread? Do you want a society that is far more religious and devoted to their religion?

> We don't know that. All we know is that the drug made them become obsessed with something irrational.

Please provide a link to said study where the words you use above are quoted from.

Otherwise you making just as much assumptions as pantalaimon

Re: DARE: The Anti-Drug Program That Never Actually Worked

#128

Post by tenpoundhammer » Sun, Oct 04, 2015, 9:41 PM UTC

themodelplumber wrote: post #13

tenpoundhammer wrote: post #11

The only thing I can remember is the dare officer teaching us how to use a bong and how to cook heroin in a spoon. I'm not sure how that's supposed to stop us from using drugs though.

Did you see the video of the DEA agent who shot himself in the foot during a K-12 presentation?

I did actually, I know police officers are human and capable of error, but this is ridiculous. Why even have your gun loaded when walking into a presentation like this?

Re: DARE: The Anti-Drug Program That Never Actually Worked

#129

Post by mistercow » Mon, Oct 05, 2015, 3:37 PM UTC

static_noise wrote: post #57

tonyarkles wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdote, data, yadda yadda. This is precisely why pot has a very infrequent place in my life. In my misspent youth, I came to the same realization: when I was smoking weed frequently, I had no problem just doing nothing with my life. Edit: on the flip side, I have come up with some really cool solutions to problems after having a bit. But it'll never be a frequent thing for me again, precisely because of the probabi…

> it'll never be a frequent thing for me again This is how drugs are taken best: Not frequent.

Sorry, that's just still a huge overgeneralization. If you are deriving significant therapeutic benefit from a drug, this statement is completely false.

Re: DARE: The Anti-Drug Program That Never Actually Worked

#130

Post by mistercow » Mon, Oct 05, 2015, 3:43 PM UTC

tonyarkles wrote: post #39

mistercow wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> pot makes you feel fine with being bored The problem with that is that it's also super not backed up by data.

Anecdote, data, yadda yadda. This is precisely why pot has a very infrequent place in my life. In my misspent youth, I came to the same realization: when I was smoking weed frequently, I had no problem just doing nothing with my life. Edit: on the flip side, I have come up with some really cool solutions to problems after having a bit. But it'll never be a frequent thing for me again, precisely because of the probabi…

>Anecdote, data, yadda yadda.

Sorry, are you waving away the comparative value of hard data and personal experience?

> when I was smoking weed frequently, I had no problem just doing nothing with my life

Sounds like pot isn't for really you then. I'd even be OK with a statement like "A danger of pot is that some people find it makes them OK with being bored".

But making sweeping generalizations that don't apply to everybody (and haven't even been shown to apply to most or many people) is exactly what is wrong with anti-drug propaganda. First off it's bad because, you know, lying is wrong. Secondly, it destroys your credibility with anyone who decides to see for themselves, and doesn't have anything close to the experience you described.

And with drugs like cocaine, meth and heroin out there, it's probably a good idea for kids to have someone with a little credibility to turn to when they want to know what's up.