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The Decline of ‘Big Soda’

nytimes.com

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Re: The Decline of ‘Big Soda’

#111
post #101
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A small number of reposts is ok if a story hasn't had significant attention yet [1]. After that, we bury reposts as dupes. This is the main device for migitating the randomness that otherwise dominates which stories make it off /newest [2]. Basically, it's ok to roll the dice a few times. If we see a good-by-HN's-standard story that fell through the cracks, we've been emailing the submitters and inviting them to repo…

I was aware of that. That's why I didn't flag the duplicates. My purpose in providing back links on each duplicate to the earlier posts was to try to avoid fragmenting the comments. When there are two submissions 18 minutes apart, there is a decent chance comments will be split between them. > If we see a good-by-HN's-standard story that fell through the cracks, we've been emailing the submitters and inviting them to…

I don't think we need worry about comment fragmentation on posts that have few points and no comments and are more than a few hours old. The odds of new comments appearing there are minuscule. On live threads, yes, but we often move those [1].

We do give originals another shot, by rolling the clock back on them internally, if they're up to a few hours old. Beyond that, it feels weird to have a story on the front page with just a few points and a timestamp that says e.g. "23 hours ago", let alone "163 days ago".

We don't change the user-facing timestamp, because that feels like rewriting history, the sort of thing that HN users wouldn't like. It would also make /newest look weird as neighboring posts could then have different ages.

The repost invites don't require users to come up with a different URL. You click on a link and the software fills that in for you.

Probably our next step will be to add a setting to user profiles that people can turn on if they want the software to do such reposts for them automatically. In that case, no need for an email, plus the software could pick a good time to do the repost. On the other hand, it's already clear that many users like getting these emails. The positive feedback has been striking.

An open question is what to do in cases where the submitter has no email address in their profile, or doesn't check their email.

If you or anyone knows of a more elegant solution, please tell us! We would love that.

1. https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byPopularity&prefix&page=0&date...

Re: The Decline of ‘Big Soda’

#112
post #100

It's amazing how many people seem to think drugs should be legalised but sugar should be banned.

For starters, I don't think there's any conceivable risk of boxes on supermarket shelves being stuffed to the brim with cocaine.

If you want to look at the number of cumulative life-years lost to drugs vs. sugar in the past several decades, my intuition is that it's not even remotely a close contest.

Re: The Decline of ‘Big Soda’

#114

When Mr. Nutter was fighting the soda tax battle, he kept a bottle of Mountain Dew and a container with 17 teaspoons of sugar — the amount in the bottle — on the table in the center of his office. It was a good “conversation piece,” he said, about the surprising number of calories in a typical soda. I think this is key. Better information and transparency is having an effect. I'm glad to hear we're approaching a poin…

That's why we haven't had anyone start smoking in decades.. Soda sales are down but obesity is still up, so the calories are coming from somewhere. If you believe the other common stories, we're drinking the calories. I'd wager they come from the rise of coffee-based beverages - which would not be considered soda - but I don't have data to back that up.

Well, some people will always want to smoke and eat poorly, and that is their choice. But cigarettes were never really insidious in the same way something like "sugar" is; I think sugar will have to be seen as a vice rather than what it is, one of the cheapest sources of calories you can get kids to eat. And that's going to have to take some deep change in the market.

And sports drinks, energy drinks, and flavored waters are certainly part of it.

Personally, I'm a big fan of soda stream. :)

Re: The Decline of ‘Big Soda’

#115

When Mr. Nutter was fighting the soda tax battle, he kept a bottle of Mountain Dew and a container with 17 teaspoons of sugar — the amount in the bottle — on the table in the center of his office. It was a good “conversation piece,” he said, about the surprising number of calories in a typical soda. I think this is key. Better information and transparency is having an effect. I'm glad to hear we're approaching a poin…

That's why we haven't had anyone start smoking in decades.. Soda sales are down but obesity is still up, so the calories are coming from somewhere. If you believe the other common stories, we're drinking the calories. I'd wager they come from the rise of coffee-based beverages - which would not be considered soda - but I don't have data to back that up.

The calories don't have to be replaced with anything - total intake can be down even if obesity is still rising, obesity will just be rising less than it otherwise would.

Also the obesity rate in children is down, which is encouraging: http://www.cdc.gov/pcd/issues/2015/15_0185.htm

Re: The Decline of ‘Big Soda’

#116
post #32

It's interesting to me that diet soda consumption has dropped from its peak. I would have guessed that sugary soda would have been replaced by diet soda, but it appears that water has replaced sugary soda more frequently. Mind mildly blown.

Yeah this wasn't exactly what I expected either - I only drink diet soda, but it seems many more people are worried about Aspartame than I assumed.

Re: The Decline of ‘Big Soda’

#117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

where do you draw the line? should all food be sold in white boxes with plain lettering?

We'll have to draw, as in most things, an arbitrary line by consensus. Spinach is on one side, sugar on another, Milk is on spinach's side, tobacco on sugar's, and so on. This is stuff that we should decide as a society to keep ourselves safe from corporate psychopaths.

Considering that more people are afraid of Aspartame than sugar, I rather not have a "consensus".

Re: The Decline of ‘Big Soda’

#118
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Under a socialized healthcare regime, every sick person is a problem for the whole society in that we have to pay for it. So, being careless with your health is a crime against the people. If you are in the USA, consider that you have been funding healthcare for some of the worst offenders for decades by paying taxes which fund hospitals. Now with the healthcare reforms in mind, which have itemized your contribution…

It's easy to advocate for collectivism when you think you are in the majority. I am a proponent of universal healthcare, but your comment has me reconsidering. Throwing individuals or subgroups under the bus so disdainfully is just as damaging to our social fabric as eating unhealthily, if not moreso. We need to unify and enlighten ourselves, not look for more excuses to feel morally superior. So whatever solution we…

I don't think "nanny state rules" would be throwing anyone under the bus. I certainly believe that the collective poor health of the country in general is a good argument against socialized healthcare. But I want it to work. But I don't think that everyone is ready for the responsibility, so we should guide them with a heavy hand. After all, universal healthcare means that everyone must be included.

Just because I happen to be healthier than some of the people around me doesn't mean I am better than them in any way. I meant to highlight that we in the USA don't have to look very far to see why our insurance premiums went up so much.

Re: The Decline of ‘Big Soda’

#119

When Mr. Nutter was fighting the soda tax battle, he kept a bottle of Mountain Dew and a container with 17 teaspoons of sugar — the amount in the bottle — on the table in the center of his office. It was a good “conversation piece,” he said, about the surprising number of calories in a typical soda. I think this is key. Better information and transparency is having an effect. I'm glad to hear we're approaching a poin…

That's why we haven't had anyone start smoking in decades.. Soda sales are down but obesity is still up, so the calories are coming from somewhere. If you believe the other common stories, we're drinking the calories. I'd wager they come from the rise of coffee-based beverages - which would not be considered soda - but I don't have data to back that up.

A)

If a beverage has a certain number of calories from sugar per volume, it doesn't really matter whether it's cola-flavored, orange-flavored, vanilla-flavored, tea-flavored, natural-flavored, artificially-flavored, carbonated, uncarbonated, caffeinated, or uncaffeinated. They're all functionally soft drinks, from a dietary perspective, but the graph that charts the decline in carbonated soda does not show the other members in this group.

.

B)

I actually harbor a hypothesis that I have not seen explored which would explain this even if we take it on face value. Contrary to traditional sources of sugar and starch, sweet beverages cause an absorption of sugar unimpeded by the normal vagaries of digestion - there's no chewing, nothing to slow a person down, no cell walls to slowly break down in the stomach, no fiber to absorb and slowly squeeze out the calories.

In the 90's, I used to drink two or three liters of birch beer for something to do while waiting for the pizza. You can keep pouring orange soda into a human body without complaint, long after they would have vomitted up a sugar-equivalent cherry pie. And often our behavior shifts to adopting soda whenever we look for a drink, as the default, several times a day.

We know that blood sugar spikes cause insulin spikes, and we know that ghrelin, insulin, & related hormones act together to modulate the hunger & satiety responses.

My hypothesis is that rapid sugar intake via drinks, when combined with our natural impulse to slake our thirst, acts to dysregulate our hunger and satiety responses in the longer term. Through whatever processes, it detaches hunger from ad libitum consumption levels, sufficient that an extra few hundred calories per day is the 'natural' level that affected people, on average, feel they should be eating. 100 extra calories a day over burn rate is about 10lbs/year of gained weight.

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C) Obesity is a lagging indicator here. People faced with an ad libitum diet find it very, very easy to maintain their weight. There seems to be a nearly universal misconception that baseline gluttony is associated with high weight levels, but that's bullshit. A person weighing 300lbs has roughly the same neurochemical hunger/stress response as a person weighing 150lbs, when you shortchange them each by 500 calories a day relative to their metabolic burn rate: It's just that metabolic burn rate goes way up as one gains weight. Maintaining weight is the default state. The mystery is why people are on average slowly gaining weight, rather than why fat people are not losing weight.

Re: The Decline of ‘Big Soda’

#120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

where do you draw the line? should all food be sold in white boxes with plain lettering?

We'll have to draw, as in most things, an arbitrary line by consensus. Spinach is on one side, sugar on another, Milk is on spinach's side, tobacco on sugar's, and so on. This is stuff that we should decide as a society to keep ourselves safe from corporate psychopaths.

There is a popular theory that diary based products are bad for health. Who decides the sides and how does he make the decision?
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