The model minority is losing patience • Hacker News Board

Re: The model minority is losing patience

#151

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Oct 03, 2015, 6:20 PM UTC

golemotron wrote: post #95

chiaro wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's just a misunderstanding over the definition. Racism as a subject of study in the humanities refers to these societal power structures, and it was this definition and usage she was probably cleaving to. The world would definitely be a better if we didn't recognize labels, but since I kind of hit the trifecta as far as race, gender etc goes, I fit into society just fine. Those who feel marginalised by society fo…

It's very hard to believe that this redefinition of the word racism was done innocently. On its face racism is act of distinguishing people by race for favor or disfavor. When it is redefined as it has been in the humanities it leaves a vacuum. There's no longer a word for the concept that racism originally referred to.

[deleted]

Re: The model minority is losing patience

#152

Post by Roewaid213 » Sat, Oct 03, 2015, 6:28 PM UTC

ap22213 wrote: post #57

huac wrote: post #16

A really good point noted in this article, and ignored in the comments, is that of the 'bamboo ceiling.' Yes, there are lots of Asians in tech. But they are generally programmers and rarely in managerial positions.

As a white in tech, I sometimes sense that I'm being discriminated against by Asian / Asian-American hiring managers. For instance, I've never been offered a position by an Asian, whereas I'm rarely not offered a position by a non-Asian. What kind of concerns me is that so many of the big tech companies have disproportionately more Asians, and many Asians cultures are known to be as racist or more racist. Unlike Amer…

This is horribly anecdotal, since asian-american managers actually tend to be less likely to hire other asians, out of fear of looking like they are practicing favoritism toward "their own."

And your bias is probably one reason for why they constantly feel so overly self-conscious about that as well

Re: The model minority is losing patience

#153

Post by tomsun » Sat, Oct 03, 2015, 6:32 PM UTC

holychiz wrote: post #136

nailer wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also entirely possible that, on average, Asian people are more intelligent than other groups. We won't really know for a long time, as discussing such things is taboo.

I'm Asian and I don't think it's possible. Jews on the other hand are confirmed with the most Nobel prizes per capita. :)

I'm Asian too. I don't think it's because of raw intelligence. Asians work hard, but in a very confined way, and visible way. For example in high school, you work hard in school to get into a great college, your hard work is visible.

Scientific discovery and technological innovation takes more than hard work, it takes the willingness to be obsessed with specific and sometimes obscure fields and forfeit social prestige and stability. Neither of those things are praised by the Asian culture.

Re: The model minority is losing patience

#154

Post by erichmond » Sat, Oct 03, 2015, 6:33 PM UTC

rsy96 wrote: post #80

One reason that Asians outperform other racial groups in the United States is overlooked in the article: the difficulty of immigration. Most whites and blacks are born within the US, and Hispanics are either born or move into the US by simply crossing a land border. For Asians to come to the US, they have to cross the Pacific Ocean. In order to do that, they have to be either rich (at least middle class), highly educ…

Exactly, if you put it another way, it's a highly self-selecting group. They are well educated, highly motivated and driven, and are so focused on "making it" whatever that means, they are willing to move to a foreign country that has the promise of being "better".

My wife's parents fit that definition, and interestingly, all her uncles and aunts who came to America are over-performing here in America, and all the ones who stayed are underperforming in Asia.

Re: The model minority is losing patience

#155

Post by dnr » Sat, Oct 03, 2015, 6:39 PM UTC

golemotron wrote: post #95

chiaro wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's just a misunderstanding over the definition. Racism as a subject of study in the humanities refers to these societal power structures, and it was this definition and usage she was probably cleaving to. The world would definitely be a better if we didn't recognize labels, but since I kind of hit the trifecta as far as race, gender etc goes, I fit into society just fine. Those who feel marginalised by society fo…

It's very hard to believe that this redefinition of the word racism was done innocently. On its face racism is act of distinguishing people by race for favor or disfavor. When it is redefined as it has been in the humanities it leaves a vacuum. There's no longer a word for the concept that racism originally referred to.

Discrimination is a pretty good word. That's the one they use for things like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-discrimination_law

Re: The model minority is losing patience

#156

Post by xyzzyz » Sat, Oct 03, 2015, 7:25 PM UTC

ryanmonroe wrote: post #141

xyzzyz wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So how is this different than people with different physical characteristics from birth? That's because skin color and facial features are directly caused by the DNA. They are just different manifestations of the same trait. DNA is also known to correlate with intelligence. Just like flattening round balls will make them slower, picking embryos with gene combinations known to correlate with higher intelligence will…

>DNA is also known to correlate with intelligence. But not with race. You can't tell which race someone is by their DNA, because, and here's the key point I think people are missing, race is a social construct based on appearance , not a biological reality. >picking embryos with gene combinations known to correlate with higher intelligence will cause the resulting humans to have higher intelligence on average. But im…

> [DNA is not known to correlate] with race.

DNA obviously correlates with race. What do you think makes the skin color of black-skinned people black? Or are you claiming skin color doesn't correlate with self-identifying as black, or being identified as black by the rest of the society?

> You can't tell which race someone is by their DNA, because (...) race is a social construct based on appearance, not a biological reality.

So is gender. However, the biological reality is that you can tell which gender someone self-identfies with by their DNA correctly at least 99 times out of 100. How hard it is to believe you can do at least as well (success rate >0.99) with race self-identification? As a data point, some people claim they can do it, and would bet their lifes on results. http://archive.wired.com/politics/law/magazine/16-01/ps_dna

> Sure, if you assume from the start that skin color genes are correlated with intelligence genes then it follows that skin color is correlated with intelligence. I'm saying there's no reason to make that assumption to begin with.

Nobody makes this assumption, though (well, except for the sake of argument). There's no reason to assume the opposite either. Science works by formulating a hypothesis and testing it.

Re: The model minority is losing patience

#157

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Oct 03, 2015, 7:33 PM UTC

memonkey wrote: post #134

cousin_it wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. The ultimate goal of such redefinitions is to imply that some groups' problems are inherently more important, more worth addressing. But that's not true. All suffering is suffering.

I don't know. Is going to jail based on your race suffering more or less than not getting into Harvard because of your race? I tend to agree with OP's comment, but one important aspect is left out when talking about things like this: Class.

[deleted]

Re: The model minority is losing patience

#158

Post by omonra » Sat, Oct 03, 2015, 7:41 PM UTC

memonkey wrote: post #134

cousin_it wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. The ultimate goal of such redefinitions is to imply that some groups' problems are inherently more important, more worth addressing. But that's not true. All suffering is suffering.

I don't know. Is going to jail based on your race suffering more or less than not getting into Harvard because of your race? I tend to agree with OP's comment, but one important aspect is left out when talking about things like this: Class.

I'd like to call out your casual mentioning of someone's race being responsible for them going to jail. That's not really what happens - rather that someone breaks the law and goes to jail.

I'm not aware of law-abiding members of any race going to jail (while the article demonstrates that Asians who do everything same as whites or blacks have no chance of getting into Harvard).

Re: The model minority is losing patience

#159

Post by dang » Sat, Oct 03, 2015, 8:55 PM UTC

9872 wrote: post #144

ap22213 wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did I write something that was offensive? If I did, please point it out; otherwise, why the ad hominem?

Ad hominem would be discrediting your story because you don't have a brain. I'm just amusedly pointing out that the logical conclusion of your story is simply that you don't have one. Offensiveness doesn't come into the picture.

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Re: The model minority is losing patience

#160

Post by dang » Sat, Oct 03, 2015, 8:58 PM UTC

beachstartup wrote: post #71

lohengramm wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe because you are considering asians in a foreign country? Surely most managers in China are Chinese. I would not expect to see a completely even ethnic distribution in high positions in any country.

> Maybe because you are considering asians in a foreign country? > Surely most managers in China are Chinese oh look, another confused racist who thinks only white people can be real americans. i hadn't seen one of you in a few years, i thought you had all died of old age by now.

You've made more than one personal attack in this thread. I'm sure you know that those are not allowed on HN.

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