Why are little kids in Japan so independent? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why are little kids in Japan so independent?

#111

Post by e40 » Sat, Oct 03, 2015, 2:28 PM UTC

jzwinck wrote: post #67

saosebastiao wrote: post #28

I would love to be able to do this with my 3yo son...but there are two things stopping me: Cars and helicopter parent culture. Cars, and the entitled culture we have fostered around them, make streets hostile to pedestrians and likely fatal to small children, even if children followed the laws and common sense. I experience it practically daily. Every time I cross the street at a marked intersection, cars will stop f…

Before you put too much blame on car culture you should know a few things about Japan. First, cars are cheap, and lots of people drive. However, lots of the same people also have a bicycle which they use for short trips including grocery shopping. People also walk. This means drivers have more empathy for people not in cars. Second, the speed limits are low. Some decent looking roads are 50 kph whereas in America the…

This means drivers have more empathy for people not in cars.

The point you make is extremely important. In my dreams:

People caught not yielding to pedestrians are sentenced to walking 3 miles a day for a month on busy city streets. I do this every day (4 miles), and I can tell you, there is not a day that goes by that I see the most horrible behavior from drivers. I can only assume, since I don't believe it's because they are all horrible people, they just have no empathy for pedestrians and can't imagine the consequences of their behavior.

Like the mom-looking lady that turned left with me in her path in the cross walk. She saw me. Turned anyway. Stopped in the lane with oncoming traffic and pushed into the cross walk (directly toward me) and looked exasperated as to why I was in her way. Does anyone thing, if a car was about to ram her that she wouldn't sacrifice me? I don't.

Re: Why are little kids in Japan so independent?

#112

Post by grecy » Sat, Oct 03, 2015, 3:57 PM UTC

Camillo wrote: post #72

saosebastiao wrote: post #28

I would love to be able to do this with my 3yo son...but there are two things stopping me: Cars and helicopter parent culture. Cars, and the entitled culture we have fostered around them, make streets hostile to pedestrians and likely fatal to small children, even if children followed the laws and common sense. I experience it practically daily. Every time I cross the street at a marked intersection, cars will stop f…

As a foreigner, "right on red" seems insane to me.

I learned to drive in a country that didn't have right on red, have now lived 9 years in countries that do.

It makes perfect sense, and it's very hard to understand why it wouldn't be allowed. As the other comments have said, it's a hard stop, so you wait until it's clear before going.

(Obviously, for countries that drive on the left, it would be left on red)

Re: Why are little kids in Japan so independent?

#113

Post by saosebastiao » Sat, Oct 03, 2015, 4:03 PM UTC

chrisbennet wrote: post #109

Camillo wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a foreigner, "right on red" seems insane to me.

It's "right on red after stopping ". The problem is people don't stop.

Exactly. If I had a reasonable expectation that >99% of the drivers obeyed the law, I wouldn't feel too hesitant to let my 3yo cross the street on his own. He knows how to look both ways, and cross when people have stopped. Even right-on-red is safe at face value. But I don't even believe that 5% of drivers obey all of the laws that protect crossing pedestrians. It's almost as if they don't expect pedestrians to exist.

Re: Why are little kids in Japan so independent?

#114

Post by grecy » Sat, Oct 03, 2015, 4:05 PM UTC

> Ideally, any member of the community can be called on to serve or help others.

After 9 years living in North America, that one line explains the difference between here and my home country better that I've ever been able to.

On a daily basis, it just feels like Americans are not in a unified society working together to help each other and have a common good - it's a much more individualistic society where everyone is looking out for number one. If someone else has shitty healthcare and is on hard times, too bad for them.

The Police in my home country are friendly and helpful, and I fondly remember asking them for help as a child and young teen. Upon arriving in NYC, I asked a policeman for directions and he barked at me for not calling him "Sir". Wow.

Re: Why are little kids in Japan so independent?

#115

Post by dctoedt » Sat, Oct 03, 2015, 5:15 PM UTC

dav- wrote: post #102

alexleavitt wrote: post #8

> "Japan has a very low crime rate, which is surely a key reason parents feel confident about sending their kids out alone. But small-scaled urban spaces and a culture of walking and transit use also foster safety and, perhaps just as important, the perception of safety." Honestly, this perception – that they try to place secondary – is KEY. Living in Japan, it's a stark contrast to walking around the States in any m…

Japan has a pervasive air of safety. As a foreigner who can speak a total of 4 words of Japanese, I felt completely safe wandering the streets alone at night, anywhere from the alleyways of Tokyo to the suburbs. There were surprisingly many people outside late at night, yet I never got a "sketchy" feeling from them like I would even in the most safe/affluent parts of America. If I was in distress for any reason I am…

> I can just imagine what would happen if this occurred on Bart. You would probably either be ignored or people would record you on their phones and upload the video to Facebook.

That's not my impression. (Unfortunately I can't think of an actual counterexample.) I think people everywhere tend to help out. I imagine that when Americans are reluctant to get involved, they feel they don't know what to do, and they're afraid they'll be criticized or even sued for supposedly making things worse.

Re: Why are little kids in Japan so independent?

#116

Post by Mz » Sat, Oct 03, 2015, 5:50 PM UTC

duderific wrote: post #70

Mz wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean in the U.S.? I honestly don't know if it more dangerous now than when I was a kid. I do know that kids are generally less free to roam around their own hometown without parental supervision than they used to be, something multiple other people have remarked upon elsewhere in this same discussion. I used to play in the patch of woods behind my house. So did all the neighbor kids. Sometimes, a bunch of kids wo…

I am roughly the same age as you, and experienced the same thing as kid. At age 8 or 9, in the summer, we were outside all day playing with other kids. If I wasn't home when the streetlights went on (signaling darkness), my Mom would come out and whistle loudly, the signal to get home. We roamed for miles on our BMX bikes (no helmets, mind you) and somehow we survived ok. Now I have a 1 year old son of my own, and I'…

When I was a kid, Halloween was basically a block party. The younger kids went out with a parent early in the evening, then came home and helped give out candy and got to stay up late. The okder kids went where the hell they wanted until midnight. Houses did their best to not merely decorate for the occasion but to really participate in giving visitors the Haunted House experience.

My sons are 28 and 25. They never got to experience that. I took them once and only once to the mamba at the mall. As often as possdible, I arranged to take them to a party on Halloween and then bought them any candy they chose the day after when it was half price. As much as possible, I refused to participate in what Halloween has become -- some commmercial piece of crap unrelated to what I grew up with.

I also ended up homeschooling and have made other choices that helped shield my kids from the watered down version of life that so many kids today get.

Best of luck. Fight the good fight.

Also, if you are intersted, I have a private blog, subrtitled "memoirs of a mom", about raising my two sons. Shoot me an email with a gmail address and I will be happy to send you an invite.

Re: Why are little kids in Japan so independent?

#117

Post by yawaramin » Sat, Oct 03, 2015, 5:52 PM UTC

masklinn wrote: post #101

yawaramin wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think I've let the 'manners mode' etiquette influence me a lot. I now keep my phone on silent from the moment I get on my train for the morning commute to work right up until I get off it again after the trip home.

I'm not sure that has anything with "manners mode" etiquette. I have never been to japan and my phone is almost always in silent mode. When my phone is either in my pocket, in my hand, or on my desk half a foot from me, I don't see why it would ever ring.

Ha. If only some of my co-workers felt as you do! The other day at a conference, in the middle of a talk, we heard someone's phone ringing. Obtuse.

Re: Why are little kids in Japan so independent?

#118

Post by kuschku » Sat, Oct 03, 2015, 5:57 PM UTC

allengeorge wrote: post #91

kuschku wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hm, especially the risk-aversion seems very similar to Germany. And the effects on the startup culture are interestingly the same. It’s interesting how unicorns are only possible in countries where no one cares about consequences of their actions.

That's...not accurate - you realize that, right? I mean - if we think tech startups in the last two decades only, then yes. But, both Japan and Germany have both fostered huge companies, both conglomerates and not, that belie your statement.

Yes, but that weren’t startups.

You know the company ALDI? They never took a single loan. Many German companies operate similarly, never taking large risks.

But US startups are taking billions in VC money, and often instantly fail again.

Re: Why are little kids in Japan so independent?

#119

Post by Camillo » Sat, Oct 03, 2015, 6:35 PM UTC

slavik81 wrote: post #108

Camillo wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, so it basically turns an intersection with traffic lights into one without. The point of a red light is that it removes the guesswork, and gives people going in other directions the guarantee that the stopped traffic won't move. Right on red throw all that out of the window.

There's no need for guesswork. The person with the red light yields to everyone.

He has to notice them first. With a normal red light, the car doesn't move, period.

Re: Why are little kids in Japan so independent?

#120

Post by Abraln » Sat, Oct 03, 2015, 7:34 PM UTC

lovemenot wrote: post #76

bsder wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In Japan, every apartment building of size has maintenance people who stay several years and know all the children in the neighborhood, and recognize strangers. Every supermarket has parking attendants. Every construction site has "guards" to make sure people cross the area safely. Every train station has staff around. It is difficult to have this when a man interacting with a small child is at risk of being accuse…

I fully agree agree. The most shameful moment I experienced in England, when I lived there with my small children whom we'd previously raised in Japan, was when I was asked by a concerned parent whether I had a permit to be in a place where children were present. Apparently all of those other parents had already applied to the government and been vetted to be in a play room attached to a public library. That was when…

In the US, any adult male who wants to be an elementary school teacher is looked at as a potential predator. Parents will literally ask to have their kids transferred to a different class because of it.