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The white-man effect: How foreigner presence affects behavior in experiments

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Re: The white-man effect: How foreigner presence affects behavior in experiments

#31

Post by [deleted] »

ardit33 wrote: post #24
IllusoryReverb wrote: post #20

Making an anecdotal contribution. Kenyan here. I have observed that white people are given preferential treatment and have (strangely) experienced racism against black people in my own country. I have, more than once heard people, mostly uneducated people, saying how much better things would be if we were still colonized. Examples of preferential treatment/racism include, faster service for white people at restaurant…

I hate to say it, but it doesn't have to do much with race, but more of the perception of "status" of the person. I have been in Sweden few times (I am white), and when people hear me talk, and know that I am visiting from NYC, I get a bit of more friendlier service. Including getting in a club as a single guy, because I had a california ID, while some Swedish guys were being left outside. Swedes have a high affinity…

[deleted]

Re: The white-man effect: How foreigner presence affects behavior in experiments

#32

Post by calibraxis »

ardit33 wrote: post #24
IllusoryReverb wrote: post #20

Making an anecdotal contribution. Kenyan here. I have observed that white people are given preferential treatment and have (strangely) experienced racism against black people in my own country. I have, more than once heard people, mostly uneducated people, saying how much better things would be if we were still colonized. Examples of preferential treatment/racism include, faster service for white people at restaurant…

I hate to say it, but it doesn't have to do much with race, but more of the perception of "status" of the person. I have been in Sweden few times (I am white), and when people hear me talk, and know that I am visiting from NYC, I get a bit of more friendlier service. Including getting in a club as a single guy, because I had a california ID, while some Swedish guys were being left outside. Swedes have a high affinity…

Much of this falls under the phenomenon of "internalized racism".

(This generalizes, so women can be sexist against other women; those in poverty can be classist against other poor people. To take a recent interview: "Women are always the first to discredit other women, likely because they’ve personally experienced something worse and didn’t or couldn’t speak up for themselves." https://modelviewculture.com/pieces/interview-with-julie-ann... )

When discussing racism, it's not just about racist emotions. Also about institutional outcomes, which can be impersonal.

Re: The white-man effect: How foreigner presence affects behavior in experiments

#33

Post by SilasX »

ardit33 wrote: post #24
IllusoryReverb wrote: post #20

Making an anecdotal contribution. Kenyan here. I have observed that white people are given preferential treatment and have (strangely) experienced racism against black people in my own country. I have, more than once heard people, mostly uneducated people, saying how much better things would be if we were still colonized. Examples of preferential treatment/racism include, faster service for white people at restaurant…

I hate to say it, but it doesn't have to do much with race, but more of the perception of "status" of the person. I have been in Sweden few times (I am white), and when people hear me talk, and know that I am visiting from NYC, I get a bit of more friendlier service. Including getting in a club as a single guy, because I had a california ID, while some Swedish guys were being left outside. Swedes have a high affinity…

Okay, but I'm pretty sure in Kenya, it's partially about race. There was a story a while back about the wealthy there paying a premium to see white people do the restaurant's dirty work:

http://m.independent.mk//articles/10478/Nairobi's+Latest+Nov...

Re: The white-man effect: How foreigner presence affects behavior in experiments

#34

Post by stuxnet79 »

IllusoryReverb wrote: post #20

Making an anecdotal contribution. Kenyan here. I have observed that white people are given preferential treatment and have (strangely) experienced racism against black people in my own country. I have, more than once heard people, mostly uneducated people, saying how much better things would be if we were still colonized. Examples of preferential treatment/racism include, faster service for white people at restaurant…

Kenyan here as well. I too lament how Kenyans always treat foreigners better than they treat their own. Your story reminds me of the time when a Chinese restaurant in Nairobi was denying entry to black Kenyans [1], and this policy had persisted for a very long time, and nobody had the courage to step up and speak about it, up until the constant media exposure embarrassed people into speaking about it. When I travel to other countries I have to deal with prejudice and racism, it is just a major drag that I experience the same in my own country.

Anecdotal contribution as well, but I've noticed that Nigerians and various other West Africans tend to be more comfortable in their own skin than Kenyans, although I'm sure you'd hear similar stories of this type from them as well.

[1] http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3010690/No-blacks-Ch...

Re: The white-man effect: How foreigner presence affects behavior in experiments

#35

Post by wutbrodo »

ardit33 wrote: post #24
IllusoryReverb wrote: post #20

Making an anecdotal contribution. Kenyan here. I have observed that white people are given preferential treatment and have (strangely) experienced racism against black people in my own country. I have, more than once heard people, mostly uneducated people, saying how much better things would be if we were still colonized. Examples of preferential treatment/racism include, faster service for white people at restaurant…

I hate to say it, but it doesn't have to do much with race, but more of the perception of "status" of the person. I have been in Sweden few times (I am white), and when people hear me talk, and know that I am visiting from NYC, I get a bit of more friendlier service. Including getting in a club as a single guy, because I had a california ID, while some Swedish guys were being left outside. Swedes have a high affinity…

I think you might be missing the forest for the trees. Stereotyping based on race is what you're describing, and it's still racist. Someone in the US refusing to hire a black guy because black men commit crimes at a higher rate is "discriminating based on the perception of the person's criminality". That doesn't mean it isn't discrimination based on race, since their perception is deriving entirely from "that person is of a race that commits crimes at a higher rate".

Re: The white-man effect: How foreigner presence affects behavior in experiments

#36

Post by sp332 »

noobermin wrote: post #29
notNow wrote: post #15

Did they run the same experiment but with people from different backgrounds and ethnicities excluding Europeans and then compare the respective results and come up with a conclusion? Otherwise, it's just a hasty conclusion with unsound methodologies employed in the process.

Well, I did the reading for you, and the answer is no. The control was a Sierra Leonean and the test was a white American. Page 8 on the paper (click one of the links above).

However, they did not come to the "conclusion" that notNow accused them of coming to. "Behavioral measures are increasingly used to infer cross-national differences in social preferences or to assess aid effectiveness — our results suggest that we should be cautious in these uses."

Re: The white-man effect: How foreigner presence affects behavior in experiments

#37

Post by rustynails »

calibraxis wrote: post #32
ardit33 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate to say it, but it doesn't have to do much with race, but more of the perception of "status" of the person. I have been in Sweden few times (I am white), and when people hear me talk, and know that I am visiting from NYC, I get a bit of more friendlier service. Including getting in a club as a single guy, because I had a california ID, while some Swedish guys were being left outside. Swedes have a high affinity…

Much of this falls under the phenomenon of "internalized racism". (This generalizes, so women can be sexist against other women; those in poverty can be classist against other poor people. To take a recent interview: "Women are always the first to discredit other women, likely because they’ve personally experienced something worse and didn’t or couldn’t speak up for themselves." https://modelviewculture.com/pieces/in…

I believe there is much more to it than meets the eye. For example, a culture that biased hiring based on gender/skin colour encourages hiring and protecting of incompetent staff. My wife dislikes one (one) of her female colleagues because she's incompetent and protected (ala political correctness). This red forces the notion of incompetence.

When I go to Asia, I may be given preferential treatment, I may not be. I have also been treated badly - other locals apologised and excused those people as racist, and I would agree.

There are many shades of distinction in these discussions. The link to Julie Ann's Article strict me as superficial, anecdotal and selective in its assessments. Like the "black doll vs white doll" tests, these are a very flimsy basis to make an assessment. How did the children go with black vs white covered books? What about black vs white rocks?

Q: why is everyone saying white man when it should be white person? I think that statement says a lot about how people think.

Re: The white-man effect: How foreigner presence affects behavior in experiments

#38

Post by seiji »

forrestthewoods wrote: post #25
rakoo wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good ol' bikeshedding here.

I'd be pretty happy if we had upvotes, downvotes, and a bikeshed button. If bikeshed comments could be filtered that'd be great.

Perhaps something like a lateral vote meaning "the comment may have a point, but they are derailing the conversation."

Then we could have a "sort by interesting (relevant)" and "sort by interesting (diverging)".

(lol this is hn, you get no sorting or filtering or on-site messaging)

Re: The white-man effect: How foreigner presence affects behavior in experiments

#39

Post by mc32 »

wutbrodo wrote: post #35
ardit33 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate to say it, but it doesn't have to do much with race, but more of the perception of "status" of the person. I have been in Sweden few times (I am white), and when people hear me talk, and know that I am visiting from NYC, I get a bit of more friendlier service. Including getting in a club as a single guy, because I had a california ID, while some Swedish guys were being left outside. Swedes have a high affinity…

I think you might be missing the forest for the trees. Stereotyping based on race is what you're describing, and it's still racist. Someone in the US refusing to hire a black guy because black men commit crimes at a higher rate is "discriminating based on the perception of the person's criminality". That doesn't mean it isn't discrimination based on race, since their perception is deriving entirely from "that person…

What is it called when in Japan patrons (mostly Japanese men) of the pink industry pay more for Eastern Europeans versus locals or other East Asians? Is it a fetish or is it racist of them? Or is it simply "exotic"?

Re: The white-man effect: How foreigner presence affects behavior in experiments

#40

Post by threatofrain »

IllusoryReverb wrote: post #20

Making an anecdotal contribution. Kenyan here. I have observed that white people are given preferential treatment and have (strangely) experienced racism against black people in my own country. I have, more than once heard people, mostly uneducated people, saying how much better things would be if we were still colonized. Examples of preferential treatment/racism include, faster service for white people at restaurant…

This is the same way in China for clubs and restaurants and such, but I think it's just for marketing.
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