The model minority is losing patience • Hacker News Board

Re: The model minority is losing patience

#41

Post by bsdpython » Sat, Oct 03, 2015, 1:24 PM UTC

jasode wrote: post #29

bsdpython wrote: post #8

I'll be very happy when everyone can just stop worrying about what race everyone else is. I understand the issue, but at what point does it sound ridiculous to even use the term minority when there are 1B+ Chinese and not much less Indian descendants around the world? In the tech world it is certainly ridiculous. Trying to micro-categorize who is a minority in what context has to qualify as some sort of vanity.

>, but at what point does it sound ridiculous to even use the term minority when there are 1B+ Chinese The 1 billion global number is not relevant because both the titles of the article and the post submission are about " U.S. minority " and not "global minority". The asian population at 4.8% of the USA is mathematically a minority. >Trying to micro-categorize who is a minority in what context has to qualify as some…

Everyone is a minority in some context was part of my point. In this particular case, by vanity I meant the admission officers, politicians and other people pushing an agenda to help "underrepresented" groups ABC at the expense of XYZ.

Re: The model minority is losing patience

#42

Post by rsy96 » Sat, Oct 03, 2015, 1:24 PM UTC

huac wrote: post #16

A really good point noted in this article, and ignored in the comments, is that of the 'bamboo ceiling.' Yes, there are lots of Asians in tech. But they are generally programmers and rarely in managerial positions.

Depends on how one defines Asians. Chinese are rare among the higher ranks in tech, but many corporations have Indians (India is in Asia, right?) as their CEO.

Re: The model minority is losing patience

#43

Post by eitally » Sat, Oct 03, 2015, 1:25 PM UTC

huac wrote: post #16

A really good point noted in this article, and ignored in the comments, is that of the 'bamboo ceiling.' Yes, there are lots of Asians in tech. But they are generally programmers and rarely in managerial positions.

I dunno. I've worked for a string of Indian managers (directors, VPs, CIOs), and if you look at the highest of the high profile companies now (Microsoft, Google, Oracle... but not Apple or Amazon) they all have Indian leadership.

Re: The model minority is losing patience

#44

Post by fennecfoxen » Sat, Oct 03, 2015, 1:25 PM UTC

crimsonalucard wrote: post #38

bsdpython wrote: post #8

I'll be very happy when everyone can just stop worrying about what race everyone else is. I understand the issue, but at what point does it sound ridiculous to even use the term minority when there are 1B+ Chinese and not much less Indian descendants around the world? In the tech world it is certainly ridiculous. Trying to micro-categorize who is a minority in what context has to qualify as some sort of vanity.

The title may refer asians as a minority. However, while asians definitely aren't a minority in the context of the world, they still are a minority in the context of the united states and Europe. All of that, however, is completely irrelevant of the issue. What is the issue? Vanity? No. The issue is racism. When a race delivers quantitative metrics that beats other races out of the water, what does it mean? When blac…

> All races are NOT equal. Political correctness states that although races look different all races are equal.

If we want to be all philosophical about it we'd say that people of all races must be equal under the law or that they are all endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights or something like that.

Re: The model minority is losing patience

#45

Post by rsy96 » Sat, Oct 03, 2015, 1:25 PM UTC

michaelfdeberry wrote: post #24

logicchains wrote: post #17

I think the Australian system is fairer, where university entrance is determined almost solely by the results of our SAT equivalent and our final year of high school in a largely automated matter. Universities don't even know the race of applicants (although they do know if the applicant is a member of the underrepresented Aboriginal minority).

That would only be fairer if everyone has the same level of access to education up to that point. I don't know anything about the Australian school systems, but I know for sure that is not the case in the U.S.

> That would only be fairer if everyone has the same level of access to education up to that point.

So it is the socioeconomic difference that should be addressed, not racial difference.

Re: The model minority is losing patience

#46

Post by happyscrappy » Sat, Oct 03, 2015, 1:26 PM UTC

[deleted] wrote: post #32

bsdpython wrote: post #8

I'll be very happy when everyone can just stop worrying about what race everyone else is. I understand the issue, but at what point does it sound ridiculous to even use the term minority when there are 1B+ Chinese and not much less Indian descendants around the world? In the tech world it is certainly ridiculous. Trying to micro-categorize who is a minority in what context has to qualify as some sort of vanity.

[deleted]

But the success of Asians/Indians kind of disproves the narrative that it is all about class. They come with nothing, live in the same poor neighborhoods and are so successful that they are discriminated against to promote diversity on campus.

Re: The model minority is losing patience

#47

Post by eitally » Sat, Oct 03, 2015, 1:28 PM UTC

notNow wrote: post #13

Americans view everything in life through the race and skin color lens. It's becoming really exhausting and frustrating to deal with. The other day I was watching a video on YT for the Daily Show after Trevor Noah took the helm. While all what I was just concerned about was the possibility that Trevor not to be up to the job and not to be able to fill Jon's shoes, in other words, he might not be funny, esp. since Jon…

I don't think this is true. I think it's a case where the individual is better than the sum of the parts, and that at the individual level there is much better meritocracy than at the organizational level.

One big issue that still exists, though, is that you'll never get protected classes of any sort into upper management if you don't hire them in the first place.

Re: The model minority is losing patience

#48

Post by eitally » Sat, Oct 03, 2015, 1:28 PM UTC

notNow wrote: post #13

Americans view everything in life through the race and skin color lens. It's becoming really exhausting and frustrating to deal with. The other day I was watching a video on YT for the Daily Show after Trevor Noah took the helm. While all what I was just concerned about was the possibility that Trevor not to be up to the job and not to be able to fill Jon's shoes, in other words, he might not be funny, esp. since Jon…

I don't think this is true. I think it's a case where the individual is better than the sum of the parts, and that at the individual level there is much better meritocracy than at the organizational level.

One big issue that still exists, though, is that you'll never get protected classes of any sort into upper management if you don't hire them in the first place.

Re: The model minority is losing patience

#49

Post by crimsonalucard » Sat, Oct 03, 2015, 1:29 PM UTC

skywhopper wrote: post #35

I'm not sure what to think about this topic, but articles like this don't help me decide, when they do things like: * Dumping data from an advocacy group into a sidebar chart without doing any critical analysis of the data. The ratios of professionals to managers and executives are meaningless without factoring age cohort ratios into the data. * Comparing Asian student admission rates between Ivy League universities…

>* Implicitly accepting the idea that SAT or ACT scores are the only metric on which students ought to be judged for making admissions decisions. (Okay they mentioned "extracurriculars" and I was amused by the Northwestern person who said recruiters were looking for people who played lacrosse and rowed crew. But all the data mentioned were based on test scores alone.)

What other metrics are you referring to besides academic performance? The color of the skin? Obviously not. But this sentence implies something else. It admits that asians deliver superior performance in terms of test scores but that there must be some other metric that causes Ivy leagues to dismiss them.

I would like to know what that metric is. What is the supposed metric that asians are inferior to other races at that causes their superior test scores to be completely dismissed? Do you know the answer? Can anyone else answer it?

Re: The model minority is losing patience

#50

Post by GBond » Sat, Oct 03, 2015, 1:33 PM UTC

huac wrote: post #16

A really good point noted in this article, and ignored in the comments, is that of the 'bamboo ceiling.' Yes, there are lots of Asians in tech. But they are generally programmers and rarely in managerial positions.

The ratio of coder/manager (grunt/boss) in Tech is better than other industries, albeit, still non-proportional to the workforce percentage. I presume a factor to Tech fairing better is that many of the founders are of asian decent.