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How Much Power Does the Volkswagen TDI Lose in “Cheater” Mode?

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Re: How Much Power Does the Volkswagen TDI Lose in “Cheater” Mode?

#31
So are they claiming that the software drops the engine into "cheat" mode by detecting when the front wheels were not spinning (which implies dyno-testing)?

Is it confirmed that is how cheat mode worked?

If I were writing this I'd be more inclined to look for known test cycle behaviour (ie, accelerate for a known time, then constant speed then stop, start etc etc) and drop into cheat mode when it is detected. I guess this could be a problem for unknown cycles though?

Re: How Much Power Does the Volkswagen TDI Lose in “Cheater” Mode?

#32
post #16

So now, given that "fixing" the problem will cause power loss, and consequently adversely affect fuel economy, wouldn't a number of VW owners opt not to bring in their vehicles for the recall? What's the incentive for VW owners to voluntarily bring in their cars for a regressive (in terms of power and mpg) fix?

I believe VW have promised to replace everyones entire engines. I'm stupefied over how much this will cost, i've seen numbers around to 100B mark. Their market cap is somewhere near half of that. Presumably they think it's better than the brand damage otherwise. I think it's fair to assume they'll go bankrupt over this.

Re: How Much Power Does the Volkswagen TDI Lose in “Cheater” Mode?

#33
post #32
post #16

So now, given that "fixing" the problem will cause power loss, and consequently adversely affect fuel economy, wouldn't a number of VW owners opt not to bring in their vehicles for the recall? What's the incentive for VW owners to voluntarily bring in their cars for a regressive (in terms of power and mpg) fix?

I believe VW have promised to replace everyones entire engines . I'm stupefied over how much this will cost, i've seen numbers around to 100B mark. Their market cap is somewhere near half of that. Presumably they think it's better than the brand damage otherwise. I think it's fair to assume they'll go bankrupt over this.

I seriously doubt Germany would let VW go bankrupt, the government owns twenty percent of the company and they are too big too fail.

Re: How Much Power Does the Volkswagen TDI Lose in “Cheater” Mode?

#34
The BBC did a real-world driving test and directly examined the exhaust for NOx emmisions and they were exponentially worse than the lab results.

If the exhaust was going into your car, you'd be fatally poisoined in short order.

So thanks for the cancer you've given to all the pedestrians and cyclists VW (and all the other lying corporate a-holes).

Re: How Much Power Does the Volkswagen TDI Lose in “Cheater” Mode?

#36
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always see large trucks on I-5 regularly spewing huge amounts of smoke when they hit the gas. It gets so bad that people speed around them to avoid the smog getting into their cars. This is mostly large commercial semis and dump trucks. Are you talking about passenger cars?

The black stuff from diesels is soot, not smog. Soot is just unburnt carbon. The term 'smog' covers a whole manner of nasty chemicals, mostly oxides of nitrogen and sulfur. Soot is relatively harmless compared to smog. A diesel producing soot is running rich and therefore is arguably cleaner than a "clean-diesel" running lean and pumping out oxides. Those carbon-belching trucks are far better for your lungs than the…

Good post! Years ago I had a slight head gasket leak, and needed to drive the vechicle just one more day before I took the head off and did the nasty job.

I had a little bit of extra smoke comming out of the tail pipe, and I got pulled over by a Police Officer. I told the officer, the extra smoke was mainly water vapor, but was still expecting a ticket.

Well, the officer said he used to be a mechanic, and knew I was likely telling the truth. He let me off with a warning.

I think those days are over though. I have seen people freak out over the wiff of cigarette smoke. Yesterday, I heard this lady yelling at a janitor over bleach smell. She squelched , "You're giving me cancer!". I don't think he understood English, and was probally better off?

I'm all for cleaning up the air, but people need to educate themselves on what exactly is going to give them, or the environment problems.

Re: How Much Power Does the Volkswagen TDI Lose in “Cheater” Mode?

#37
post #35

Why would a company take such a huge risk for a paltry 10% gain in engine power, and a probably even smaller gain in mpg? This seems like a very dumb thing to do.

In order to sell cars. The competition is/was doing it also and it was widely known practice. [1] For some reason VW is getting all the blame.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjUr3RQRERM

Re: How Much Power Does the Volkswagen TDI Lose in “Cheater” Mode?

#38
post #28

Not very convincing. On most cars, you can't completely turn off traction control. The "ESP off" button is there driving with tire chains, it just increases the threshold of the safety systems but doesn't disable them. That could explain the warnings in the dashboard, and also the reduced torque. High torque on low-traction surfaces leads to wheel spin.

Off topic but I hate cars that don't allow traction control (TC) to be turned off it can be dangerous.

We had Ford Transit vehicles at work and in the winter if there is a lot of snow the TC will kill 90% of engine power trapping you in the snow.

I've almost been killed by TC on a Ford Transit activating at the worst moment. When I first drove the vehicle I had the vehicle stop abruptly when the TC kicked in and a car almost ran into the back of me.

You can disable it by taking out a fuse but it also disables the ABS and airbag. Plus it was a leased company vehicle so I couldn't do that anyway.

It's like a practical joke here kill 90% of the engine power at the worst moment.

For you warm climate people drifts of snow at the end of driveways or on the road are common in winter regions. Usually you power through them if possible, wheels straight, foot down on the pedal all the way.

In the end I found out I could go fast and then put the vehicle in neutral and coast through as best I could.

I should say for ice TC is fantastic but it's not common for pure ice to be on a road, some parts but most times it would be melted by applied road salt.

Re: How Much Power Does the Volkswagen TDI Lose in “Cheater” Mode?

#39
post #28

Not very convincing. On most cars, you can't completely turn off traction control. The "ESP off" button is there driving with tire chains, it just increases the threshold of the safety systems but doesn't disable them. That could explain the warnings in the dashboard, and also the reduced torque. High torque on low-traction surfaces leads to wheel spin.

Off topic but I hate cars that don't allow traction control (TC) to be turned off it can be dangerous. We had Ford Transit vehicles at work and in the winter if there is a lot of snow the TC will kill 90% of engine power trapping you in the snow. I've almost been killed by TC on a Ford Transit activating at the worst moment. When I first drove the vehicle I had the vehicle stop abruptly when the TC kicked in and a ca…

ISTM the Transit's TC might just not be tuned very well? That might be related to the model year or might be something a Ford dealer could fix with a firmware update. Friends I've had in snowy places have sworn by their AWD vehicles. Personally I've scared myself half to death driving a big RWD truck in the snow.

Re: How Much Power Does the Volkswagen TDI Lose in “Cheater” Mode?

#40
post #9

The methodology here is highly suspect. First of all they are using an AWD dyno which can be unlinked to test a FWD or RWD car. It is expected that the car will dyno lower when driving the rear wheels as well as the front. Not only does it have to turn the drums of the dyno but also the rear wheels, tires, and brakes of the vehicle. Second, a key component of the cheat as reported by the media is keying off of the pr…

Not really. The car is a FWD car. So when the rear wheels aren't being spun up, the car should produce ever so slightly more measurable power instead of less. Because, as you stated, it didn't have to spin up the rear wheels, etc.

The dyno can tell if both wheels are being driven or just the front ones. If it couldn't, then the results wouldn't be off by 10% but they'd be off by 50% as the dyno wouldn't understand that by having the two drums linked they got twice as heavy and it'd do the calculations based off of the inertia of a single drum instead of both drums.

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