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DARE: The Anti-Drug Program That Never Actually Worked

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Re: DARE: The Anti-Drug Program That Never Actually Worked

#71

Post by Cthulhu_ »

FireBeyond wrote: post #43
mratzloff wrote: post #6

I think Randy Marsh from "South Park" had the most effective anti-marijuana speech I've ever heard: Stan: I've been told a lot of things about pot, but I've come to find out a lot of those things aren't true! So I don't know what to believe! Randy: Well, Stan, the truth is marijuana probably isn't gonna make you kill people, and it most likely isn't gonna fund terrorism, but… well, son, pot makes you feel fine with b…

If you want to convince teenagers not to try (certain) drugs - have them watch Trainspotting and Requiem For A Dream. Emotionally punishing, both of them.

Doubtful, the more influentiable people would be like "Oh wow I can totally get rich selling drugs as long as I don't startg using it myself!"

Re: DARE: The Anti-Drug Program That Never Actually Worked

#72

Post by Cthulhu_ »

carbide wrote: post #18

I remember DARE. A message delivered to us by people we didn't respect. A police officer that no one trusted and videos of teens we perceived to be losers telling us that drugs were bad. The program seemed to focus on social pressure not to do drugs, but social pressure is meaningless and ineffective when it's coming from somewhere beneath you. It had the effect of making my peers want to get high to distinguish them…

From your description, it does sound similar to abstinence-only sex ed. The only thing schools should do with regards to drugs, sex, alcohol, and all those vices that can be enjoyed responsibly, is to educate - this is what these drugs will do, positive and negative effects, it's illegal to possess it in most cases, etc.

We didn't have much or any of that, but we did have a police officer in class once showing us a block of hash. IDK what all that was about though, we just thought it was cool to have a guy with a gun in class, :p. (note that this is in a country famous for its tolerance towards weed)

Re: DARE: The Anti-Drug Program That Never Actually Worked

#73

Post by Cthulhu_ »

chunkstuntman wrote: post #54
setpatchaddress wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With all of those grammar and punctuation errors, an 8th grade English teacher marked that essay 100%? Seriously? You need to find a better school.

Perhaps this teacher was looking more for thoughtful analysis and insight rather than pedantically seeking out minor grammatical errors.

Call me archaic, but schools should teach proper spelling and grammar in addition to the process of reasoning. I can't take any writing seriously if it's done poorly. (I didn't think the essay was done poorly though, it's still better than a lot of writing done on the internet nowadays)

Re: DARE: The Anti-Drug Program That Never Actually Worked

#74

Post by Broken_Hippo »

hristov wrote: post #44
astazangasta wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, just do drugs. I mean, LSD is great, and people should try it. Smoking pot is also nice, I've done some great writing while stoned. Heck, Paul Erdos did amphetamines his whole life. Why are we trying to convince everyone not to do drugs again?

Nobody has ever done any great writing while stoned. Even Hunter S. Thompson, one of the most pro-drug writers ever, said that pot is the only drug that prevents him from doing any good work. And no, people should not try LSD. LSD leads to a high danger of psychosis or schizophrenia, and that is no fun at all. It is better not to risk it. Just because you may have gotten lucky so far, there is no reason to invite oth…

To be fair: Using hallucinogens has been one of the most positive life experiences I've done. While you say things about mental health, the previous poster is correct: It merely can make symptoms more clear, but the cause isn't linked and is often reversed. Hallucinogens also tend to have the opposite effect on depression. One strand of pot isn't nice to anxiety, but if we are honest and open about stuff, affected people can avoid it (or use minimal amounts to test, or try it in the company of a trusted friend)... you know, using information and self-knowledge to try to make wise choices.

And that was Thompson's experience with pot - in which case, he should have learned thereafter not to do pot and expect good work from himself: Others find that pot makes them more productive, and yet others find that it is good for some portions of the work, but not others. Simply because his words seem to uphold the stereotype doesn't make it any more true.

Re: DARE: The Anti-Drug Program That Never Actually Worked

#75

Post by throwawaymonoid »

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #74
hristov wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody has ever done any great writing while stoned. Even Hunter S. Thompson, one of the most pro-drug writers ever, said that pot is the only drug that prevents him from doing any good work. And no, people should not try LSD. LSD leads to a high danger of psychosis or schizophrenia, and that is no fun at all. It is better not to risk it. Just because you may have gotten lucky so far, there is no reason to invite oth…

To be fair: Using hallucinogens has been one of the most positive life experiences I've done. While you say things about mental health, the previous poster is correct: It merely can make symptoms more clear, but the cause isn't linked and is often reversed. Hallucinogens also tend to have the opposite effect on depression. One strand of pot isn't nice to anxiety, but if we are honest and open about stuff, affected pe…

While I'm a proponent, research has made a fairly solid case for THC's ability to trigger latent psychological illness. As you stated, making informed choices relative to your medical history is both critical and necessary to avoid unintended permanent consequences.

It's interesting how vastly different everyone's qualitative experiences are when the physiological states are fairly uniform... I think observing those altered processes with next-gen EEG tech may offer some illumination in our current, limited model of neuroplasticity.

Re: DARE: The Anti-Drug Program That Never Actually Worked

#76

Post by TelmoMenezes »

mratzloff wrote: post #6

I think Randy Marsh from "South Park" had the most effective anti-marijuana speech I've ever heard: Stan: I've been told a lot of things about pot, but I've come to find out a lot of those things aren't true! So I don't know what to believe! Randy: Well, Stan, the truth is marijuana probably isn't gonna make you kill people, and it most likely isn't gonna fund terrorism, but… well, son, pot makes you feel fine with b…

Bullshit. There are numerous counter-examples to this, from artists and musicians to game developers, engineers and scientists.

I suspect that the perceived correlation between smoking cannabis and being a loser is that successful cannabis smokers have a strong incentive against disclosing this habit -- they could lose their jobs, or be excluded from further opportunities. They also have more resources and possibly life experience and wisdom to protect themselves from law enforcement and the social status quo (i.e people like you who might judge them unfairly).

Of course I am not advocating cannabis use. I am advocating seeing what works for you and making up your own mind. Some people love coffee, some people don't. None of our business.

One problem I suspect that the status quo has with cannabis is that it is a type of drug that makes you more relaxed about status games. Some people describe the experience like this: it's not that you don't want to do things anymore, it's that you don't care so much about what other people think you should be doing.

But mostly, cannabis is illegal because of racism (it was associated with black people and the jazz scene when it became popular in the west) while alcohol -- a much more dangerous drug that is indeed heavily used to mask boredom -- is ok because white people were used to it, it was part of their culture.

Re: DARE: The Anti-Drug Program That Never Actually Worked

#77

Post by kalleboo »

TelmoMenezes wrote: post #76
mratzloff wrote: post #6

I think Randy Marsh from "South Park" had the most effective anti-marijuana speech I've ever heard: Stan: I've been told a lot of things about pot, but I've come to find out a lot of those things aren't true! So I don't know what to believe! Randy: Well, Stan, the truth is marijuana probably isn't gonna make you kill people, and it most likely isn't gonna fund terrorism, but… well, son, pot makes you feel fine with b…

Bullshit. There are numerous counter-examples to this, from artists and musicians to game developers, engineers and scientists. I suspect that the perceived correlation between smoking cannabis and being a loser is that successful cannabis smokers have a strong incentive against disclosing this habit -- they could lose their jobs, or be excluded from further opportunities. They also have more resources and possibly l…

> There are numerous counter-examples to this

I'm not saying the GP is correct (I'd rather see a study than "something a cartoon said"), but there are "numerous counter-examples" to everything. Pack-a-day smokers who lived to 110, high-functional alcoholics, people who lived long lives around lead, mercury and asbestos. That doesn't mean you don't want to encourage people to not try to beat the odds.

Re: DARE: The Anti-Drug Program That Never Actually Worked

#78

Post by Broken_Hippo »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #69
hristov wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody has ever done any great writing while stoned. Even Hunter S. Thompson, one of the most pro-drug writers ever, said that pot is the only drug that prevents him from doing any good work. And no, people should not try LSD. LSD leads to a high danger of psychosis or schizophrenia, and that is no fun at all. It is better not to risk it. Just because you may have gotten lucky so far, there is no reason to invite oth…

To everyone, you should read The Episode ( http://www.stilldrinking.org/the-episode-part-1 ), a series of blog posts by Peter Welch, most famous for his 'Programming Sucks' post, in which he describes his experiences with going completely batshit insane after a week without sleep plus LSD. It's a great piece of one person's experiences with LSD use gone wrong. edit: actually he's published it as as an ebook too, titl…

I've not time to read a book and reply to this comment in a timely manner, however: I'd note that lack of sleep in itself can cause some pretty freaky stuff to happen to people's minds in itself. If that is the experience I'm reading about - with an overtone of LSD - I cannot hold that representative of a bad trip.

Occsionally,people do have bad trips, however, there is truth in that. For me, that goes back to making informed decisions. Legal sales from trained folks, with stableized ingredients and dosages helps with such things. Yes, a few people are gonna be stupid, but that basically happens with everything.

Re: DARE: The Anti-Drug Program That Never Actually Worked

#79

Post by Broken_Hippo »

digi_owl wrote: post #58
hristov wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody has ever done any great writing while stoned. Even Hunter S. Thompson, one of the most pro-drug writers ever, said that pot is the only drug that prevents him from doing any good work. And no, people should not try LSD. LSD leads to a high danger of psychosis or schizophrenia, and that is no fun at all. It is better not to risk it. Just because you may have gotten lucky so far, there is no reason to invite oth…

> said that pot is the only drug that prevents him from doing any good work. And this is where i suspect the big anti-pot push is coming from. With alcohol you can go out for some beers after work, get buzzed, get up the next day with a nagging ache, and still come back to work. With pot it is more likely that you go "fuck work!". End result, pot is not good for business. Looking across history, there is a whole mess…

This isn't true for me. I'm more likely to get a good night sleep and wake up well-rested, without a headache ready to go to work after a night of smoking. I'm more likely to call off work if I am feeling sick from drinking the night before: In fact, I'm more likely to simply not go out after work to drink. I can smoke some and do my household stuff in the evening, walk to a coffee shop afterwards and talk with folks, draw, read, etc, most of which is impossible when drinking. I'm gonna guess absenteeism is higher among chronic alcohol users than it is among chronic pot users, but I don't have the citation to back it up.

Re: DARE: The Anti-Drug Program That Never Actually Worked

#80

Post by Broken_Hippo »

rashkov wrote: post #37
ossreality wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I almost want to login to my non-throwaway/hellbanned account just to laugh at this notion. The times I've been most curious. Most engrossed in a piece of new tech has been when I'm high. Some night, I will go home from a 9-10 hour work day and get high to relax and make dinner and then go to bed... but will wind up reading about the latest and greatest in container tech, or whatever. The notion that pot makes you di…

Everyone reacts differently to different substances, etc etc, but perhaps what you're describing is a little different from chronic, every-day smoking? Smoking pot occasionally can make anything more fun, but over time it seems like it would desensitize you to novelty. Your mileage may vary of course. I've met some brilliant and highly successful people who smoke every day to no ill effect.

That's the thing - most people that regularly smoke blend seamlessly into society. It isn't that we are talking smoking joints as cigarettes. What most people refer to as smoking is more equivelent to binge drinking rather than a glass of wine with lunch and/or dinner.
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