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DARE: The Anti-Drug Program That Never Actually Worked

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Re: DARE: The Anti-Drug Program That Never Actually Worked

#51

Post by pstuart »

FireBeyond wrote: post #43
mratzloff wrote: post #6

I think Randy Marsh from "South Park" had the most effective anti-marijuana speech I've ever heard: Stan: I've been told a lot of things about pot, but I've come to find out a lot of those things aren't true! So I don't know what to believe! Randy: Well, Stan, the truth is marijuana probably isn't gonna make you kill people, and it most likely isn't gonna fund terrorism, but… well, son, pot makes you feel fine with b…

If you want to convince teenagers not to try (certain) drugs - have them watch Trainspotting and Requiem For A Dream. Emotionally punishing, both of them.

Sigh. Then have them read Bukowski and have them never touch a drink again.

Edit: my brother died of a heroin overdose, so I have zero fucking tolerance for this bullshit simplistic reasoning.

Re: DARE: The Anti-Drug Program That Never Actually Worked

#52

Post by stephengillie »

ISL wrote: post #15

As a counterpoint, I found DARE to be a useful and worldly course. I probably wasn't the target audience, as an introverted sciency-type, but the class gave me a survey of the various drugs on the market and an introduction to a vocabulary with which I'd had no contact. When interactions with drugs touched closer friends in subsequent years, I feel that I was better prepared than I would've been without DARE. Anecdot…

Satire is something so rarely seen on HN. Good job.

Re: DARE: The Anti-Drug Program That Never Actually Worked

#53

Post by stephengillie »

Houshalter wrote: post #42

Interesting article. But it didn't go into any details of why DARE is ineffective compared to other programs. It didn't specify what the other programs did differently. It barely mentioned the other programs, or their effectiveness, until the very end. I'm afraid a lot of readers might walk away with the impression that all anti-drug programs are ineffective. Lastly it says that this reform started in the 2000's. Tha…

That's just it - DARE forked the MVP. The completed product is out there, hardly known.

Re: DARE: The Anti-Drug Program That Never Actually Worked

#54

Post by chunkstuntman »

setpatchaddress wrote: post #47
te_platt wrote: post #3

Proud father comment here. Last year my son's school had a DARE essay writing contest. Knowing that I favor legalizing drugs he showed me his submission before turning it in. I should note we had a good conversation about why I think drug use is a very bad idea and the reasons why. His English teacher (8th grade) gave him 100 out of 100. The following is his submission: D.A.R.E. is a program designed to keep kids fro…

With all of those grammar and punctuation errors, an 8th grade English teacher marked that essay 100%? Seriously? You need to find a better school.

Perhaps this teacher was looking more for thoughtful analysis and insight rather than pedantically seeking out minor grammatical errors.

Re: DARE: The Anti-Drug Program That Never Actually Worked

#55

Post by athrowaway27 »

I swear on my life, the following is 100% true.

When i was in 5th grade, a dare officer came to my class and told me about a piece of paper i could put under my tongue and see things that werent real(lsd)... that started a decade long journey of copious drug use.

Re: DARE: The Anti-Drug Program That Never Actually Worked

#56

Post by hristov »

pstuart wrote: post #50
hristov wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody has ever done any great writing while stoned. Even Hunter S. Thompson, one of the most pro-drug writers ever, said that pot is the only drug that prevents him from doing any good work. And no, people should not try LSD. LSD leads to a high danger of psychosis or schizophrenia, and that is no fun at all. It is better not to risk it. Just because you may have gotten lucky so far, there is no reason to invite oth…

> LSD leads to a high danger of psychosis or schizophrenia Citations please. It's a powerful drug but has incredible value when used properly. If you're going to start wringing your hands over dangerous drugs, start with the killers of today: alcohol, tobacco, and prescription drugs.

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM196512022732302

Re: DARE: The Anti-Drug Program That Never Actually Worked

#57

Post by static_noise »

tonyarkles wrote: post #39
mistercow wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> pot makes you feel fine with being bored The problem with that is that it's also super not backed up by data.

Anecdote, data, yadda yadda. This is precisely why pot has a very infrequent place in my life. In my misspent youth, I came to the same realization: when I was smoking weed frequently, I had no problem just doing nothing with my life. Edit: on the flip side, I have come up with some really cool solutions to problems after having a bit. But it'll never be a frequent thing for me again, precisely because of the probabi…

> it'll never be a frequent thing for me again

This is how drugs are taken best: Not frequent.

Re: DARE: The Anti-Drug Program That Never Actually Worked

#58

Post by digi_owl »

hristov wrote: post #44
astazangasta wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, just do drugs. I mean, LSD is great, and people should try it. Smoking pot is also nice, I've done some great writing while stoned. Heck, Paul Erdos did amphetamines his whole life. Why are we trying to convince everyone not to do drugs again?

Nobody has ever done any great writing while stoned. Even Hunter S. Thompson, one of the most pro-drug writers ever, said that pot is the only drug that prevents him from doing any good work. And no, people should not try LSD. LSD leads to a high danger of psychosis or schizophrenia, and that is no fun at all. It is better not to risk it. Just because you may have gotten lucky so far, there is no reason to invite oth…

> said that pot is the only drug that prevents him from doing any good work.

And this is where i suspect the big anti-pot push is coming from.

With alcohol you can go out for some beers after work, get buzzed, get up the next day with a nagging ache, and still come back to work.

With pot it is more likely that you go "fuck work!".

End result, pot is not good for business.

Looking across history, there is a whole mess or barely concealed agenda aimed at maintaining a workforce. Even the modern school system is perhaps put into place to produce and maintain a more useful workforce.

Re: DARE: The Anti-Drug Program That Never Actually Worked

#59

Post by jeffdavis »

astazangasta wrote: post #36
Vexs wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously, the only things that have ever made me think a second time about drugs are the honest descriptions of it, not the "I did drugs and now I have no teeth" kinda descriptions, but the ones that go, "When you're on meth, meth feels great! Everything is amazing, you feel like you can do so much, but when you're off it everything seems boring! So you go back for more, and eventually you're addicted." kinda descri…

Or, just do drugs. I mean, LSD is great, and people should try it. Smoking pot is also nice, I've done some great writing while stoned. Heck, Paul Erdos did amphetamines his whole life. Why are we trying to convince everyone not to do drugs again?

"Why are we trying to convince everyone not to do drugs again?"

I guess you could say that occasional use is not a big problem for most drugs. But I wouldn't recommend it, because most people go through some vulnerable time when they could become addicted (or otherwise abuse drugs), and at that time you don't want to have the stuff in your house or a dealer friend ready to supply.

We dismiss people who join cults that sound crazy -- an alien ship coming to rescue them or something -- but I think a high percentage of people could be recruited if the cult appears at just the right time in their lives.

If you are a regular user of drugs, it's like always having the cult recruiter in your house, just waiting for the right time.

Re: DARE: The Anti-Drug Program That Never Actually Worked

#60

Post by Cryptokeeper »

hristov wrote: post #56
pstuart wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> LSD leads to a high danger of psychosis or schizophrenia Citations please. It's a powerful drug but has incredible value when used properly. If you're going to start wringing your hands over dangerous drugs, start with the killers of today: alcohol, tobacco, and prescription drugs.

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM196512022732302

That article is 50 years old. Perhaps this one from 2013: http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal....

"21,967 respondents (13.4% weighted) reported lifetime psychedelic use. There were no significant associations between lifetime use of any psychedelics, lifetime use of specific psychedelics (LSD, psilocybin, mescaline, peyote), or past year use of LSD and increased rate of any of the mental health outcomes. Rather, in several cases psychedelic use was associated with lower rate of mental health problems."

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