Native Americans aren't genetically more susceptible to alcoholism • Hacker News Board

Re: Native Americans aren't genetically more susceptible to alcoholism

#21

Post by protomyth » Fri, Oct 02, 2015, 9:35 PM UTC

canjobear wrote: post #17

Torgo wrote: post #13

A person with a masters degree in social work assures us that the genetic evidence collected to date is bunk. >severe stress doesn’t just affect one generation: it is passed down, both socially — affecting parenting — and physiologically, by actually changing how children’s genes are read, which can alter both brain and body, a phenomenon known as epigenetics. Research on children of Holocaust survivors, for example,…

Fwiw, the claim that the genetic evidence is bunk comes from "Joseph Gone, associate professor of psychology at the University of Michigan", not a social worker.

I would prefer an actual geneticist and I cannot help but think of type of food intolerance that recently appeared on HN to show me this might be bunk.

Re: Native Americans aren't genetically more susceptible to alcoholism

#22

Post by Kalium » Fri, Oct 02, 2015, 9:37 PM UTC

AlexWest wrote: post #4

Of course it's not genetic, it's environmental.

It's not a binary question, nature or nurture, here. It can be both.

Re: Native Americans aren't genetically more susceptible to alcoholism

#23

Post by notNow » Fri, Oct 02, 2015, 9:41 PM UTC

Isn't the word "disposed" more suitable to this context than "susceptible"?

Re: Native Americans aren't genetically more susceptible to alcoholism

#24

Post by cpncrunch » Fri, Oct 02, 2015, 9:43 PM UTC

ta83742389 wrote: post #10

I'd be interested in hearing from, say, a biologist or a medical doctor, too. But the article only interviews academics from social work and psychology. I'd like to see some links to research on genetics. The article links only research on environmental factors in addiction. The article's conclusion may well be right, but it's not convincing if you don't agree with the conclusion before reading it.

You can't really trust these press releases in general. A quick search turns up this:

http://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/arh301/3-4.htm

The gist seems to be that although some groups do have different alcohol metabolizing genes, Native Americans don't differ from the general population, so their alcohol problems can't be explained by genetics.

If you really want to get to the bottom of it, you'd need to spend an hour or two on google scholar.

Re: Native Americans aren't genetically more susceptible to alcoholism

#25

Post by andyl » Fri, Oct 02, 2015, 9:43 PM UTC

A cultural marxist parable wrapped in junk science.

Re: Native Americans aren't genetically more susceptible to alcoholism

#26

Post by protomyth » Fri, Oct 02, 2015, 9:47 PM UTC

jqm wrote: post #15

VT_Drew wrote: post #2

No shit. We took their land, killed their families and friends, and quarantined them to "reserves". Then introduced them to alcohol. What did you think would happen? It isn't genetics, it is escape-ism.

That stuff happened generations ago so I don't think it's the main reason there is such a drinking problem among Natives today. Having spent some time around Native Americans here are some observations. Often when they drink they get carried away and drink to excess for the session. They often don't just sit and chat while doing it but engage in some fairly crazy behavior like turning over cars etc. Alcohol does appe…

> That stuff happened generations ago so I don't think it's the main reason there is such a drinking problem among Natives today.

NO, boarding schools, forced adoption, forced relocation to urban environments happened within the current generations. Anyone thinking this is old problems has not looked at new from Indian country.

"Having spent some time around Native Americans here are some observations"

I am typing this from a reservation and grew up here. I am a lineal descendant on the tribal roll (not of the tribe I lived with) but missed being an enrolled member by 1/8 blood quota. My Dad is enrolled.

Grouping all of the tribes is as foolish as grouping all of Europe. Dakota have very different behavior than Seminole or Navajo. What you saw is not indicative of all the tribes, but alcoholism is a problem with most. I have never observed the behavior you described. I have observed fights and violence.

Diabetes and Obesity are well know problems and have a lot to do with diet of people who were exiled to places where food would not grow and hunting became scarce. A lot of "Native American" food came from that era and is not exactly healthy.

Re: Native Americans aren't genetically more susceptible to alcoholism

#27

Post by coldtea » Fri, Oct 02, 2015, 9:48 PM UTC

Torgo wrote: post #13

A person with a masters degree in social work assures us that the genetic evidence collected to date is bunk. >severe stress doesn’t just affect one generation: it is passed down, both socially — affecting parenting — and physiologically, by actually changing how children’s genes are read, which can alter both brain and body, a phenomenon known as epigenetics. Research on children of Holocaust survivors, for example,…

>A woman with a masters degree in social work assures us that the genetic evidence collected to date is bunk.

Perhaps you missed the whole:

"In fact, there’s no evidence that Native Americans are more biologically susceptible to substance use disorders than any other group, says Joseph Gone, associate professor of psychology at the University of Michigan. American Indians don’t metabolize or react to alcohol differently than whites do, and they don’t have higher prevalence of any known risk genes."

thing.

>Article immediately discarded.

Bias immediately detected.

Re: Native Americans aren't genetically more susceptible to alcoholism

#28

Post by maxerickson » Fri, Oct 02, 2015, 9:48 PM UTC

sandworm101 wrote: post #3

Given that strong alcoholic drinks have been around for at most a few thousand years it seems silly to assume that any group has yet evolved any genetic adaptations. Cultural adaptations are certainly a different question. I know of many native communities in my area (Canada) that have very specific substance abuse issues. They are tied to unique economic, sociological and even geographical* situations, but nobody ta…

Alcohol metabolism already existed when humans started fermenting things on purpose:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_dehydrogenase

I don't know how reputable it is, but this article discusses allelles that do seem to confer some protection against alcoholism:

http://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/arh301/5-13.pdf

Re: Native Americans aren't genetically more susceptible to alcoholism

#29

Post by protomyth » Fri, Oct 02, 2015, 9:49 PM UTC

andyl wrote: post #25

A cultural marxist parable wrapped in junk science.

Yeah, this is a typical important sounding Verge article that ignores all the research and nuance in the study of Native Americans including some fine research by Native Americans living on the reservation.

Re: Native Americans aren't genetically more susceptible to alcoholism

#30

Post by mslate » Fri, Oct 02, 2015, 9:50 PM UTC

Torgo wrote: post #13

A person with a masters degree in social work assures us that the genetic evidence collected to date is bunk. >severe stress doesn’t just affect one generation: it is passed down, both socially — affecting parenting — and physiologically, by actually changing how children’s genes are read, which can alter both brain and body, a phenomenon known as epigenetics. Research on children of Holocaust survivors, for example,…

Why does it matter that she's a woman?

That's not such a great way to initiate a criticism of another person's intellectual pedigree.