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Why are little kids in Japan so independent?

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Re: Why are little kids in Japan so independent?

#51

Post by e40 »

saosebastiao wrote: post #28

I would love to be able to do this with my 3yo son...but there are two things stopping me: Cars and helicopter parent culture. Cars, and the entitled culture we have fostered around them, make streets hostile to pedestrians and likely fatal to small children, even if children followed the laws and common sense. I experience it practically daily. Every time I cross the street at a marked intersection, cars will stop f…

It's a shame and we will be reaping the side effects of this for decades to come.

Re: Why are little kids in Japan so independent?

#52

Post by zyxley »

geon wrote: post #34
nostrademons wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of this is because of assumptions made by other people & law enforcement. A couple friends of mine had DSS called on them for letting their two daughters, ages 10 & 5, walk to a park a block away, with a cell phone, within shouting distance, while their mother was at home. The charges were eventually dropped, but it's not really a hassle that any parent wants to go through. The assumption in many parts of the U…

I agree that there seems to be a state of constant paranoia, but could you elaborate on this: > In many cases, they're not safe because that's the assumption.

Many people are now overprotective of their children not because of fear of crime but because of fear that the state will take those children away if they're not kept in bubble-wrap and on leashes 24/7.

Re: Why are little kids in Japan so independent?

#53

Post by zyxley »

bcoates wrote: post #49
Nadya wrote: post #30

Honestly - a large amount of crimes in Japan go unreported. Many murders are written off as suicides (which contributes to the high suicide and low murder rates reported by the government...). I don't really trust crime statistics coming from a country that's heavily influenced by Yaks. This has to do entirely with public perception (as user alexleavitt also mentioned). In Japan, I feel safe to leave my bag on a benc…

You were doing so well until you brought up the CPS boogeyman, which is as much a part of the baseless fear culture you're deriding as anything else. Getting in trouble with CPS over letting your kid be independent is as unlikely as any of the other horror stories the media (and your friend's cousin's hairdresser) pushes about childhood. CPS employees are stretched thin on full-blown abandonment and horrifying abuse…

> and don't care if some kid walks down the street alone

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/04/13/parents...

Re: Why are little kids in Japan so independent?

#54

Post by Nadya »

bcoates wrote: post #49
Nadya wrote: post #30

Honestly - a large amount of crimes in Japan go unreported. Many murders are written off as suicides (which contributes to the high suicide and low murder rates reported by the government...). I don't really trust crime statistics coming from a country that's heavily influenced by Yaks. This has to do entirely with public perception (as user alexleavitt also mentioned). In Japan, I feel safe to leave my bag on a benc…

You were doing so well until you brought up the CPS boogeyman, which is as much a part of the baseless fear culture you're deriding as anything else. Getting in trouble with CPS over letting your kid be independent is as unlikely as any of the other horror stories the media (and your friend's cousin's hairdresser) pushes about childhood. CPS employees are stretched thin on full-blown abandonment and horrifying abuse…

The CPS boogeyman was hyperbole, yes. Few freerange parents get charged with anything, but a few do still have to deal with investigations or charges by local police. Is it isolated? Yes. But it happens. Even if police don't get involved, you get flak/judgement from neighbors and nosy busy bodies butting into your business and trying to parent your kid(s). That happens a lot more and is something most any free range parent in a suburb knows the feeling of.

The fear is there and my father had plenty of issues with busy body neighbors and the police being called because of an "unattended child" (me). The shit happens and my own mother is one of the judgmental busy bodies herself; looking down on her neighbor for letting their 11 year old child to play jump rope with her friend in the front yard of their house. Has my mother called CPS on the neighbor? No. But she treats them like shit and refuses to let my sisters' visit their house in fear they'll do something "unattended".

Yes - those two examples were very personal anecdotes. But it's not like I'm the only person to ever deal with this stuff. A great thing about the internet is you get to meet countless other people who have the same issues you have:

http://www.freerangekids.com/why-do-i-keep-scaring-people-wi...

If the US didn't have a culture of fear and nosy busy-bodies butting into other peoples' business at every turn, this wouldn't even be a discussion and "free range parenting" wouldn't even be a term. It would be called "parenting". Like how it is in the UK, Japan, and many other countries.

Re: Why are little kids in Japan so independent?

#56

Post by selimthegrim »

Mz wrote: post #39
Torgo wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I interpreted it in the context of repeated "demographic crisis" claims about Japan getting older. I still read it that way, but if that wasn't your intent, I apologize.

I used to have several friends in Pakistan, a country with a relatively low average age. IIRC, Pakistan is the "youngest" country on the planet, demographically speaking, and has a lot of problems that grow out of that. So I have read up a bit on how average age interacts with things like crime rates, tendency to be involved in violent organizations, etc. More adults/higher average age/demographic shift in one direct…

Why the "used to"? Did they all leave?

Re: Why are little kids in Japan so independent?

#57

Post by mgbelisle »

I spent four years growing up in Japan (my parents were ESL teachers) and I attended Japanese public schools for 2nd/3rd grade and sophomore year of college. What the article says is very true; I feel like strangers can be trusted in Japan but not here in NYC. There is strong pressure in Japan to do what's good for others: be clean, be quiet, be honest, be economical. There is also strong pressure to follow the social norm and to not take risks, which affects startup culture in Japan like https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8573992 describes well. Both these traits have one thing in common: they point to Japan's exceptionally homogenous culture. I really wish we could have the ubiquitous "care for others" mentality alongside the "be yourself" mentality, but so far I've not seen anywhere that is very much the case. If anyone has seen it I'm really interested to know.

Re: Why are little kids in Japan so independent?

#58

Post by Mz »

selimthegrim wrote: post #56
Mz wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to have several friends in Pakistan, a country with a relatively low average age. IIRC, Pakistan is the "youngest" country on the planet, demographically speaking, and has a lot of problems that grow out of that. So I have read up a bit on how average age interacts with things like crime rates, tendency to be involved in violent organizations, etc. More adults/higher average age/demographic shift in one direct…

Why the "used to"? Did they all leave?

Friends come and go. We fell out of touch.

Re: Why are little kids in Japan so independent?

#59

Post by zach »

They have "My First Errand", we have Dateline NBC and America's Most Wanted. What else should we expect?

I think Americans have an almost pathological reflex to gaze at sentimental stories that are sensational because they are exceptional, then use them as guidelines for how the world is now.

The sentimentality aspect, which drives interest, outrage and action, is what makes it so pernicious. Sentimental appeal is what drives our politics, media and fundraising. If there's no emotional aspect, our media is quick to invent one by creating angles like arguments between talking heads.

I know many on HN understand that there are fewer than 200 stranger abductions of children per year in the US. Maybe you even know that runaways have decreased by over 70% in the last ten years.

How would the US public ever know this?

In the emotional marketplace, that simple fact can't compete with these facts which, when conflated in the media, produce utter paranoia:

http://www.missingkids.com/KeyFacts

I have nothing against the work this organization does; they are as captive to the existing narrative as police or parents or anyone else.

I think the progress in this area is that through electronic media, we can actually measure pretty easily how informed the public is by the media they consume. Hopefully we can get closer to news that demonstrably informs people.

Re: Why are little kids in Japan so independent?

#60

Post by bsder »

jmadsen wrote: post #25

OP here - just my own thoughts: I've lived here 13 years & am raising 2 girls who both have been able to live in the manner described in the article. 1) The number one reason why we feel comfortable is the number of "safe" people constantly around. In Japan, every apartment building of size has maintenance people who stay several years and know all the children in the neighborhood, and recognize strangers. Every supe…

> assaults on children/young people are a problem, and parents worry.

Statistically, they are a very low problem if we disregard assaults by family members. It may be that, in the US, CPS may be more of a hazard than strangers at this point.

The fact that the US is pedestrian-hostile is more problematic.

For any given segment of a trip in Japan, there are probably other adult pedestrians walking that segment as well. If a child simply "falls in" with a group going the right way for several small segments sequentially, they will have the right behavior.

In the US, there are very likely not fellow pedestrians for children to emulate except in the very biggest cities.

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