No shit. We took their land, killed their families and friends, and quarantined them to "reserves". Then introduced them to alcohol. What did you think would happen? It isn't genetics, it is escape-ism.
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Native Americans aren't genetically more susceptible to alcoholism
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Re: Native Americans aren't genetically more susceptible to alcoholism
#12[deleted]
The title is just the hypothesis. Their conclusion is the opposite: "The findings suggest that it is unlikely that Native Americans carry a genetic variant that predisposes them to alcoholism. Certain variants of ADH and ADLH do have a protective affect against alcoholism in some Native American people; however, these findings do not explain the high incidence of alcoholism in the tribes that were studied."
Re: Native Americans aren't genetically more susceptible to alcoholism
#13A person with a masters degree in social work assures us that the genetic evidence collected to date is bunk.
>severe stress doesn’t just affect one generation: it is passed down, both socially — affecting parenting — and physiologically, by actually changing how children’s genes are read, which can alter both brain and body, a phenomenon known as epigenetics. Research on children of Holocaust survivors, for example, shows changes in reading instructions for genes related to stress.
Citing debunked garbage study, appealing to science like magic when it confirms biases. Article immediately discarded.
Re: Native Americans aren't genetically more susceptible to alcoholism
#14No shit. We took their land, killed their families and friends, and quarantined them to "reserves". Then introduced them to alcohol. What did you think would happen? It isn't genetics, it is escape-ism.
Of course that is a component, but no one was sure if it was the whole story. Now we know.
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Re: Native Americans aren't genetically more susceptible to alcoholism
#15No shit. We took their land, killed their families and friends, and quarantined them to "reserves". Then introduced them to alcohol. What did you think would happen? It isn't genetics, it is escape-ism.
That stuff happened generations ago so I don't think it's the main reason there is such a drinking problem among Natives today.
Having spent some time around Native Americans here are some observations. Often when they drink they get carried away and drink to excess for the session. They often don't just sit and chat while doing it but engage in some fairly crazy behavior like turning over cars etc. Alcohol does appear to affect them differently and it's not "alcoholism" like someone's Anglo uncle who sits in front of the TV quietly downing a fifth of scotch every night until his liver gives out. In my limited observations, it's more like a group of 16 year old getting blind drunk down by the river in the effects it produces.
I don't think it's all environmental. I think the effects of alcohol are in general different than it is with other racial groups. Incidentally, the effects of sugar appear to also be worse as well. Go to any reservation and look at the incidents of diabetes and obesity. I don't have an explanation... maybe some of it is cultural, but I think there is a genetic/evolutionary component making the effects of alcohol and carbohydrates much more harmful to Native Americans. I think they need to keep looking.
Re: Native Americans aren't genetically more susceptible to alcoholism
#16Given that strong alcoholic drinks have been around for at most a few thousand years it seems silly to assume that any group has yet evolved any genetic adaptations. Cultural adaptations are certainly a different question. I know of many native communities in my area (Canada) that have very specific substance abuse issues. They are tied to unique economic, sociological and even geographical* situations, but nobody ta…
You might be interested in researching CYP2E1.
http://www.science20.com/news_articles/cyp2e1_gene_and_alcoh...
Re: Native Americans aren't genetically more susceptible to alcoholism
#17A person with a masters degree in social work assures us that the genetic evidence collected to date is bunk. >severe stress doesn’t just affect one generation: it is passed down, both socially — affecting parenting — and physiologically, by actually changing how children’s genes are read, which can alter both brain and body, a phenomenon known as epigenetics. Research on children of Holocaust survivors, for example,…
Fwiw, the claim that the genetic evidence is bunk comes from "Joseph Gone, associate professor of psychology at the University of Michigan", not a social worker.
Re: Native Americans aren't genetically more susceptible to alcoholism
#18Given that strong alcoholic drinks have been around for at most a few thousand years it seems silly to assume that any group has yet evolved any genetic adaptations. Cultural adaptations are certainly a different question. I know of many native communities in my area (Canada) that have very specific substance abuse issues. They are tied to unique economic, sociological and even geographical* situations, but nobody ta…
Lactose tolerance is believed to have developed in the last 5,000 - 10,000 years. There was recently a news story about the Inuit having an adaptation that is at most 20,000 years old [1], and probably unique to them. The deeper we dig into genes the more stuff like this we'll find. It wasn't a silly theory. It may be wrong , but it wasn't silly. [1]: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/22/science/inuit-study-adds-t...
Except that neither of those examples involve new substances. Lactose has been around for literally millions of years. Genes for dealing with it, or not, are part of what makes us mammals (ie things with mammary glans that nurse their young). And the gene found in the Inuit has not appeared recently. It exists nearly worldwide and is far older than its recent rise to prominence in the inuit. It has not evolved anew.
Alcohol is new. While old genes may have evolved to deal with addiction generally, any gene specifically addressing alcohol could not possibly have evolved in the brief time the new world native communities were genetically disconnected from europe/asia/africa.
I also seriously doubt that alcohol was predominant enough in any ancient population for it to have an impact on survivability. Only the rich could afford to drink that much.
Re: Native Americans aren't genetically more susceptible to alcoholism
#19No shit. We took their land, killed their families and friends, and quarantined them to "reserves". Then introduced them to alcohol. What did you think would happen? It isn't genetics, it is escape-ism.
This is the story of all humanity up until the last couple of centuries. Tribes, countries, empires killing and conquering. It's not a uniquely American phenomenon. It's still happening in many places today. I think we need to stop leaning on past atrocities (without endorsing or excusing them in any way) as an excuse for not being responsible adults in the here and now. We can't change the past, we can only live the…
Who do you include in "we"?
Re: Native Americans aren't genetically more susceptible to alcoholism
#20Earlier quoted context omitted.
Lactose tolerance is believed to have developed in the last 5,000 - 10,000 years. There was recently a news story about the Inuit having an adaptation that is at most 20,000 years old [1], and probably unique to them. The deeper we dig into genes the more stuff like this we'll find. It wasn't a silly theory. It may be wrong , but it wasn't silly. [1]: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/22/science/inuit-study-adds-t...
Except that neither of those examples involve new substances. Lactose has been around for literally millions of years. Genes for dealing with it, or not, are part of what makes us mammals (ie things with mammary glans that nurse their young). And the gene found in the Inuit has not appeared recently. It exists nearly worldwide and is far older than its recent rise to prominence in the inuit. It has not evolved anew.…
> any gene specifically addressing alcohol could not possibly have evolved in the brief time the new world native communities were genetically disconnected from europe/asia/africa
It could have been a spandrel.