Table-top games are booming in the video-game age • Hacker News Board

Re: Table-top games are booming in the video-game age

#31

Post by eru » Fri, Oct 02, 2015, 5:11 AM UTC

AJ007 wrote: post #9

anigbrowl wrote: post #2

It will be interesting to see whether the alrger iPad pro finds use as a game board; it loks like it's large enough for two people to comfortably play many traditional games, like Connect 4 or suchlike. This seemed like one of the most interesting possibilities for the ill-fated Microsoft Surface Table, but past attempts were just too large.

Augmented reality will merge board games with electronic.

It's already happening. Some games come with companion apps that replace a game master.

One Night Ultimate Werewolf is an example. But there are more intricate ones.

Re: Table-top games are booming in the video-game age

#32

Post by eru » Fri, Oct 02, 2015, 5:14 AM UTC

Paul_S wrote: post #18

chongli wrote: post #8

As an avid player of both video games and board games, I'll say one thing: video games have really fallen afoul of the diminishing marginal utility of interesting decisions. A 2-hour game of Agricola, to me, has far more interesting decisions packed into it than 20 hours of Civilization V, despite having orders of magnitude fewer options per turn and turns per game.

I can explain some of the reasons behind this in video games. Design is hard and in some cases impossible because you want the game to be everything to everyone regardless of their play style or level of competence. This is why you get so much optional content and every decision you make has trivial or superficial consequences. Imagine mario kart rubberband mechanic outside of racing games. If done well it gives you…

> I remember when my innocence was shattered when I was given the task to write code that would subtly "fix" user inputs to do the "correct" thing.

I had the same feeling when playing one of the newfangled Prince of Persia games a few years ago: the 3d environment gives you the impression that you'd be much freer. But there are not-so subtle rails that you move along when doing acrobatics.

The original 2d game had simple understandable mechanics, so you knew exactly what rails you were moving on. After a while you just ignored them and though `inside the box'.

The latter style helps much more with suspension of disbelieve.

Re: Table-top games are booming in the video-game age

#33

Post by seabrookmx » Fri, Oct 02, 2015, 5:25 AM UTC

Zikes wrote: post #3

I think the primary factors behind the growth of the tabletop industry are increased exposure, the drive for more in-person social interaction (as opposed to online videogames), and the introduction of a host of new complex mechanics that keep the games fun and interesting. Tabletop games today are leagues ahead of Monopoly and many of the other games of old. Those classics have their place, but even with constant re…

> the drive for more in-person social interaction (as opposed to online videogames)

I think this is where Nintendo's marketshare is coming from as well. Local multiplayer. Games like Mario Kart, Mario Maker, Smash Bros etc. are really great.

You can get a group of people (gamers and non gamers), some take out, and have a blast.

Board gaming can be a similar experience - with the added depth that comes with many of the more advanced games.

Re: Table-top games are booming in the video-game age

#34

Post by SingleShot » Fri, Oct 02, 2015, 5:26 AM UTC

cletus wrote: post #26

cbhl wrote: post #4

One factor that I think has helped a lot is Kickstarter / crowdfunding, which helps mitigate the costs of a first production run. Another factor is DRM in video games -- why spend 4x$60 on four licenses for a multiplayer video game and hundreds more on hardware, when you could just spend $50 on a board game and have it support four to six people?

As someone who has been playing boardgames for 20+ years and computer games for even longer I can tell you that neither Kickstarter nor DRM are relevant factors here. In fact, both came much later than these trends started. Broadly speaking, tabletop games are divided into what are called Euro games and Ameritrash [1]. Euro games have less player-conflict and (often but not always) less luck. Euro games either origin…

I would throw a 3rd major category in there: wargames https://boardgamegeek.com/wiki/page/wargames.

Re: Table-top games are booming in the video-game age

#35

Post by imacomputer2 » Fri, Oct 02, 2015, 5:59 AM UTC

We are not living in the video-game age. We are living in the nerd age. And it's awesome!

Re: Table-top games are booming in the video-game age

#36

Post by fsiefken » Fri, Oct 02, 2015, 6:19 AM UTC

For some insights on what designing an engaging table-top experience is like read Ignacy Trzewiczek blog: https://boardgamesthattellstories.wordpress.com/ Phil Eklund's Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/phil.eklund or Bruno Faidutti's blog http://faidutti.com/blog/

If people are up for a tabletop game through Vassal or Tabletop Simulator or just talking about board games, e-mail me and we could arrange something through skype/hangout/mumble. I'm in CET. The games I like are listed on my boardgamegeek profile. https://boardgamegeek.com/user/fsiefken For example: The New Era, Greenland, Polis, Puerto Rico, Carson City, Terra Mystica, Dvonn or Arimaa. If you like the idea of table top gaming I can also recommend to get together a regular gaming group of friends or board gamers in your area. Perhaps on a city level something is setup already, ask in tabletop game shops, check meetup.com or facebook groups. I'm lucky to live in a city with 5 gameshops and 3 regular city level board game events.

Re: Table-top games are booming in the video-game age

#37

Post by baldfat » Fri, Oct 02, 2015, 1:43 PM UTC

seabrookmx wrote: post #33

Zikes wrote: post #3

I think the primary factors behind the growth of the tabletop industry are increased exposure, the drive for more in-person social interaction (as opposed to online videogames), and the introduction of a host of new complex mechanics that keep the games fun and interesting. Tabletop games today are leagues ahead of Monopoly and many of the other games of old. Those classics have their place, but even with constant re…

> the drive for more in-person social interaction (as opposed to online videogames) I think this is where Nintendo's marketshare is coming from as well. Local multiplayer. Games like Mario Kart, Mario Maker, Smash Bros etc. are really great. You can get a group of people (gamers and non gamers), some take out, and have a blast. Board gaming can be a similar experience - with the added depth that comes with many of th…

Yes board games are local multi player games of our youth like Golden Eye and the other games you listed. Didn't think of that.

Re: Table-top games are booming in the video-game age

#38

Post by baldfat » Fri, Oct 02, 2015, 1:57 PM UTC

eru wrote: post #28

chongli wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've played both and while the expansions do make the game better it's still nowhere close to as good as Agricola in the interesting decisions department. There's still way too many trivial things for you to manage and way too few situations where you have to stop and think for several minutes before proceeding.

That's why I still like the original Master of Orion: they really paired down the micro-management there. The boardgame Eclipse compares somewhat. (Though Eclipse really wants to be a computer game.)

MOO2 is amazing BUT that game will never be remade. I loved the unbalanced Civs. We see this in Crusader Kings 2 and Europa Universalis where the challenge level is based on who you start with. Most people HATE that and demand balanced games with equal opportunity to win with any civ. This is why all the other masters of orion games and clones have failed. The games are just not that interesting with a more complicated but still equally easy victories.

Can someone please port Masters of Orion 2 with a tweaked interface for tablets?!?!?!?

Re: Table-top games are booming in the video-game age

#39

Post by eru » Sun, Oct 04, 2015, 10:07 AM UTC

baldfat wrote: post #38

eru wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why I still like the original Master of Orion: they really paired down the micro-management there. The boardgame Eclipse compares somewhat. (Though Eclipse really wants to be a computer game.)

MOO2 is amazing BUT that game will never be remade. I loved the unbalanced Civs. We see this in Crusader Kings 2 and Europa Universalis where the challenge level is based on who you start with. Most people HATE that and demand balanced games with equal opportunity to win with any civ. This is why all the other masters of orion games and clones have failed. The games are just not that interesting with a more complicat…

Free Orion (http://www.freeorion.org/index.php/Main_Page) is a remake of (mostly) MoO2.

> This is why all the other masters of orion games and clones have failed.

You are aware that I was praising MoO for simplicity and railing against MoO2 as being too complicated already?

MoO2 was too complicated with everything but the kitchen sink. Moo kept it simpler. (The civilizations are just as unbalanced in MoO as in MoO 2.)

> The games are just not that interesting with a more complicated but still equally easy victories.

Up the difficulty lever they give you at the beginning of most games.

Re: Table-top games are booming in the video-game age

#40

Post by rahimnathwani » Tue, Oct 06, 2015, 12:23 AM UTC

eru wrote: post #30

rdsnsca wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are already plenty of board games ports to iOS . http://ipadboardgames.org

I'm looking for a game that displays common state on the tablet in the middle of the table, and let's everyone muck around with their private state on their mobile phone. Eclipse on the iPad is fun in local hand-the-iPad-around mode. But since you can't see the board while other people are mucking around, you can't plan ahead easily during the downtime. (I guess I'll have to write that one myself.)

The Scrabble app for iPad used to do that. There was a separate 'Tile Rack' app for iPhone. The iPad app for Scrabble was paid ($9.99 IIRC), but only one player had to buy it. The companion tile rack app was free. For some reason, EA seems to have removed that functionality:

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/838860/scrabble-tile-rack-a...

https://twitter.com/askeasupport/status/237941190538977280