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Apple CEO Tim Cook: 'Privacy Is a Fundamental Human Right'

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Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook: 'Privacy Is a Fundamental Human Right'

#51

Post by vezzy-fnord »

larrywright wrote: post #16
staunch wrote: post #7

> If you buy something from the App Store, we do know what you bought from the App Store, obviously. We think customers are fine with that. Users should also be able to install apps on their iPhones without Apple knowing what they're doing. Personal computing devices shouldn't have artificial walled gardens. But I agree with him on everything else and think he's a hero for what he's doing.

I think that what Apple has done here is an acceptable tradeoff. The app store trades a small amount of privacy for a lot more security. Looking at Android's perpetual issues with this makes me think that Apple made the right choice.

The security benefits come mostly from curated package management in general, not limiting the device to one particular repository (the App Store).

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook: 'Privacy Is a Fundamental Human Right'

#52

Post by randyrand »

mozumder wrote: post #43
pbreit wrote: post #2

Amen. Who the heck wants their own government spying on them? I'd rather be "less safe" whatever that even means. The government works for us, not the other way around.

You mean the "spying" program that was revealed to have filters to filter out their own citizens communications? Seriously, why do people conveniently ignore this little fact? Why would these filters exist, as revealed in CLASSIFIED documents, if the government were interested in spying on its own citizens? If the government were interested in spying on you, they would just do it. They wouldn't need to build machines…

So they record/log every single phone communication in the US, only to filter out every single phone recording made in the US?

That doesn't make sense. How can you tell who is talking on the phone anyway? And what if a US citizen was talking to a non-citizen?

Regardless, the point is that backdoors - even if used 99% of the time correctly - opens up your phone and all its nitty gritty details of your life to adversaries. IDK how the NSA phone logging worked so I can't really comment on how safe it is. None us can. That's sort of the problem.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook: 'Privacy Is a Fundamental Human Right'

#53

Post by marincounty »

guelo wrote: post #41
staunch wrote: post #7

> If you buy something from the App Store, we do know what you bought from the App Store, obviously. We think customers are fine with that. Users should also be able to install apps on their iPhones without Apple knowing what they're doing. Personal computing devices shouldn't have artificial walled gardens. But I agree with him on everything else and think he's a hero for what he's doing.

Right. I haven't used an iPhone in years but I remember being forced to enter credit card details to install or upgrade even a free app.

Their used to be a way around giving up a atm/credit card? I remember getting home with my big purchase, and thinking, I'm not giving this company more money. Plus, I just don't like to give the number out.

I don't think I even gave them my real address.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook: 'Privacy Is a Fundamental Human Right'

#54

Post by [deleted] »

codeka wrote: post #48
api wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately if you remove the walls from the garden you get a malware, crapware, and (ironically given the topic) spyware explosion -- a tragedy of the commons more or less. Mobile devices are used by over a billion people, most of whom don't know much about computers. From the perspective of sleazy marketers and black hat hackers that's a lot of fresh meat. They're better than PCs since they're studded with sensor…

> If you don't know what you're doing and install apps from the app store without examining them closely That's completely orthogonal though, because Play Store is Google's walled garden. What Google allow you to do, in addition to downloading things from their walled garden, is also side-load apps completely separately from the walled garden. There's no evidence that the ability to side-load causes an increase in ma…

[deleted]

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook: 'Privacy Is a Fundamental Human Right'

#55

Post by gozo »

larrywright wrote: post #16
staunch wrote: post #7

> If you buy something from the App Store, we do know what you bought from the App Store, obviously. We think customers are fine with that. Users should also be able to install apps on their iPhones without Apple knowing what they're doing. Personal computing devices shouldn't have artificial walled gardens. But I agree with him on everything else and think he's a hero for what he's doing.

I think that what Apple has done here is an acceptable tradeoff. The app store trades a small amount of privacy for a lot more security. Looking at Android's perpetual issues with this makes me think that Apple made the right choice.

So we have forgotten XcodeGhost already or the iCloud hacks?

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook: 'Privacy Is a Fundamental Human Right'

#56

Post by batuhanicoz »

nnutter wrote: post #33
AdmiralACK wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From: http://9to5mac.com/2015/06/10/xcode-7-allows-anyone-to-downl... "Apple has changed its policy regarding permissions required to build and run apps on devices. Until now, Apple required users to pay $99/year to become a member of Apple’s Developer Program in order to run code on physical iPhone and iPads. As part of the new Developer Program, this is no longer required. Apps can be tested on devices, no purchase…

Does it let you install binary apps or do you have to compile from source? Do they still have to be signed? Who verifies the signature?

Well, if you have a developer cert, you can use iModSign app to change the certificate on a binary and install it on your iOS device. I've done this before with a beta version of WhatsApp.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook: 'Privacy Is a Fundamental Human Right'

#57

Post by vezzy-fnord »

martingordon wrote: post #49
aianus wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My Galaxy S3 let me flash whatever I wanted on it. Just had to reboot in a special mode and click a button agreeing to void my warranty. No back door required. Why can't iPhones do the same (from a security perspective, I understand the business reasons)?

I'm saying that the flashing/side-loading is the back door. A malicious actor with physical access to your phone (think screen repair shop, TSA agent, etc) could flash a compromised OS or install malware on your device. Also, there a lot of not-savvy people who will follow instructions in a well-crafted email or pop up and allow themselves to succumb to spyware and malware.

I'm saying that the flashing/side-loading is the back door

Next you'll be saying compilers are backdoors, too. That's not what the term "backdoor" means.

A malicious actor with physical access to your phone

Stop. Physical access means all bets are off.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook: 'Privacy Is a Fundamental Human Right'

#58

Post by pbreit »

mozumder wrote: post #43
pbreit wrote: post #2

Amen. Who the heck wants their own government spying on them? I'd rather be "less safe" whatever that even means. The government works for us, not the other way around.

You mean the "spying" program that was revealed to have filters to filter out their own citizens communications? Seriously, why do people conveniently ignore this little fact? Why would these filters exist, as revealed in CLASSIFIED documents, if the government were interested in spying on its own citizens? If the government were interested in spying on you, they would just do it. They wouldn't need to build machines…

Is that true? My understanding is only one party needed to be a non-citizen.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook: 'Privacy Is a Fundamental Human Right'

#59

Post by madgoat »

baliansa wrote: post #31

This is just a plain attack on Google. sigh

Then google should come back with stronger privacy rules and ensure that their users information won't be sold to any third party.

Oh wait, they can't because that is the majority of their income.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook: 'Privacy Is a Fundamental Human Right'

#60

Post by kbenson »

api wrote: post #15
staunch wrote: post #7

> If you buy something from the App Store, we do know what you bought from the App Store, obviously. We think customers are fine with that. Users should also be able to install apps on their iPhones without Apple knowing what they're doing. Personal computing devices shouldn't have artificial walled gardens. But I agree with him on everything else and think he's a hero for what he's doing.

Unfortunately if you remove the walls from the garden you get a malware, crapware, and (ironically given the topic) spyware explosion -- a tragedy of the commons more or less. Mobile devices are used by over a billion people, most of whom don't know much about computers. From the perspective of sleazy marketers and black hat hackers that's a lot of fresh meat. They're better than PCs since they're studded with sensor…

What would we do if we didn't have apple to protect us from our own ignorance?

Apple is fallible. If developers can break out of app review constraints by using carefully included bugs[1] then the only solution is actively monitoring what the apps are doing. If that's the case, what value-add is Apple's walled garden? Just keeping out crappy programs? I think there are plenty of solutions for discovering what programs are good or not, as we've been working on that problem for decades now for computers specifically, and centuries in the general case.

1: http://www.imore.com/researchers-sneak-malware-app-store-exp...

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