Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why Fogbugz lost to Jira

movingfulcrum.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 251 posts

Re: Why Fogbugz lost to Jira

#111

Post by vacri »

ISL wrote: post #44
grossvogel wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That makes sense. I'd guess the main reason people use Bitbucket over Github is "free private repos," with "we already use other Atlassian products" a close second.

The only reason I looked outside of GitHub was Bitbucket's free private repos. Now, for our academic lab, we're working entirely with Bitbucket (for the UI), and repositoryhosting (for low-cost repo archival with many users). In an academic setting, where private repos are created for each small collaborative project, then left idle but accessible, GitHub's per-private-repo pricing model is prohibitive.

BitBucket has better user and permissions management for businesses, although github is slowly improving.

Re: Why Fogbugz lost to Jira

#112

Post by vacri »

eikenberry wrote: post #31

> This meant they couldn't use all of the ecosystem and amazing tooling around Java [...] Does anyone else get the same confused feeling whenever they read things like this? Every experience I've had with the Java/JVM ecosystem has been anything but amazing to the point where I now avoid it like the plague. I can't believe I'm that much different than everyone else, but I see this often enough that it makes me wonder…

In the context of the article, java is not being compared against the pool of all available languages, but specifically against the in-house language Wasabi.

Re: Why Fogbugz lost to Jira

#113

Post by shoo »

codeulike wrote: post #95
Meekro wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They set a project delivery date and you just have to hit it. Do you find that this really works out, in practice? Joel has argued[1] that the only schedule worth anything is the one set by the developers themselves. Management can set relative priorities (X is twice as important as Y), but trying to force a faster deadline on the developers is like trying to make your Linux box run faster by renice-ing every process…

Do you find that this really works out, in practice? No. Good luck persuading the management to try something else!

Rob Thomsett had an article titled "Estimation Games" published in American Programmer, 1996:

> It is our belief that over the 30 plus years of commercial computing has developed a series of sophisticated political games that have become a replacement for estimation as a formal process.

> More importantly, like all good games they are passed on from generation to generation by "children" I.T. people learning from "adult" managers who of course learnt the games from their adults when they were children and so on. Of course, none of the academic institutions [our preschools] prepare the new I.T. graduate for these games but rather, leave it to the cold reality of the work environment to teach graduates [the new children] that estimation techniques are only good for teaching in university.

> The good news is that I.T. can estimate better. The bad news is that there are lifetimes of games and refining of games that have to be avoided to do this.

There used to be a good copy of it easily visible on the web, today the best I can find for you is this PDF copy of the article: http://research.cs.queensu.ca/~ahmed/home/teaching/CISC322/F...

Previous HN discussion (~200 days ago): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9182814

Also worth a read for a chuckle: http://www.dadhacker.com/blog/?p=2267

Re: Why Fogbugz lost to Jira

#115

Post by lugg »

manicdee wrote: post #57
command_tab wrote: post #16

And yet, "Creating a JIRA task is like going to the fucking DMV." https://twitter.com/jesseherlitz/status/648557144845910016

Only if your installation is set up that way. Here's how I create a Jira ticket in my organisation: 1. Click "Create Issue", 2. type in a summary (the headline), 3. type in the detail, 3. Click "Create" If you have more stuff to fill out, that's an issue with your local configuration. Blame your Jira master, not Jira or Atlassian :D

I'm still going to blame Jira/Atlassian for making that workflow possible.

My work flow is exactly the same as yours, yet it still feels clunky, and is quite correctly, a total dog.

Much like, you know, going to the DMV.

Re: Why Fogbugz lost to Jira

#117

Post by krupan »

skrebbel wrote: post #27

A bit off topic, and I know I'm sounding like a condescending jerk here but I mean it: but why do people love bugs so much that they want to purchase an entire database program to track them? I mean, if you have more than 10 bugs that are highly important to keep track of, it seems to me that you have much larger problem than whether to purchase JIRA or FogBugz. I mean, either a bug is important to you so prioritize…

Turns out Linus isn't too fond of bug trackers either:

http://yarchive.net/comp/linux/bug_tracking.html

and the kernel seems to be doing pretty well.

Re: Why Fogbugz lost to Jira

#118

Post by lloydde »

This takes me back ten years to 2005. I was the QA lead at an open source company and we really wanted to use FogBugz. An operations engineer imported all of our bugzilla issues and we were starting to put FogBugz through its paces, but what we couldn't figure out was FogBugz licensing for all of our OSS community. In the en, I think Joel did get back to us and tell us their product was not a fit.

Another adviser replied to the thread below (oldest at the bottom) that Apache also uses Jira.

In the end we kept using Bugzilla.

  From: bizguy
  Subject: RE: [Staff] FW: Joel Spolsky intro?
I second FogBugz being unreachable. Also, Jira has a MUCH more impressive client list:

Cisco, Oracle, HP, NASA, JPL, CERN, MIT, CalTech, Cornell, HBO

  From: ceo
  Subject: RE: [Staff] FW: Joel Spolsky intro?
in view of the FogCreek people being unresponsive, and advisor's instant "don't use them" response, I'd like for us to do a bit more due diligence on Jira. I notice that they have per-server licensing ($4800), with unlimited users.

  From: me
  Subject: Re: [Staff] FW: Joel Spolsky intro?
jira is java based and requires running tomcat which can be a bit of a pig.

It is supportive of open source communities. That is about all I know about it right now... I will look at it more tonight.


  From: advisor
  To: ceo
  Subject: Re: Joel Spolsky intro?

  Avoid, use Jira...

  
  ceo wrote:
  >
  > Dear friends,
  >
  > I'm trying to get a hold of Joel Spolsky so we can work out some

  > arrangement for using their FogBugz bugtracking system.  Please let me
  > know if you know Joel and can help with an intro, since my blind email
  > isn't getting a response.

Re: Why Fogbugz lost to Jira

#119

Post by Steltek »

sbierwagen wrote: post #106
skrebbel wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The relevant XKCD: https://xkcd.com/277/

Was that really the xkcd you wanted?

I actually misread the URL as https://xkcd.com/927/ (having memorized that number like everyone else here, I'm sure) until I saw your comment. #277 is definitely not right.

Re: Why Fogbugz lost to Jira

#120

Post by pbreit »

This is a terribly uninformed perspective on the monumental achievement of large success. If anything, fog bugz "lost" to stack exchange which, imo, is a more profound achievement than the over crowded project management category that still hasn't put out a product that has broad appeal.
Post reply on HN