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Does anyone else get the same confused feeling whenever they read things like this? Every experience I've had with the Java/JVM ecosystem has been anything but amazing to the point where I now avoid it like the plague. I can't believe I'm that much different than everyone else, but I see this often enough that it makes me wonder.
Seems to me Atlassian "won" because they had a actual sales team not because of "technology".
They won because they appealed to the true buyer in the office; the CTO or VP of engineering, but they really appeal to the control-freak and micro-manager.
When I used Fogbugz in one office, it was the devs that pushed for its use and the project managers and other execs weren't able to screw it up; there was no obvious way of creating custom workflows or locking things down too much. Fogbugz let us get work done. JIRA in the hands of a micromanager makes me want to chew glass.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've used both, and I can only imagine your complaints about JIRA's UI are due to how it's been configured for your use. The out of the box user experience is the best I've seen for a web application. A robust yet easy to use 'search' feature is at the heart of many things, like the scrum and kanban boards, as well as widgets that can be put on your own personalize dashboard. You get a nice visual designer for settin…
> I've used both, and I can only imagine your complaints about JIRA's UI are due to how it's been configured for your use. Exactly. There are some companies that go so overboard with Jira customizations that a single "create new issue" requires hitting page down three times to get to the end. And they arrive at that by adding a field here for the QA team, a field there for the Sales team... In the end, you get a mons…
As a PM, Pivotal Tracker (used in a previous life) is one of the best work-tools I've ever used.
> This meant they couldn't use all of the ecosystem and amazing tooling around Java [...] Does anyone else get the same confused feeling whenever they read things like this? Every experience I've had with the Java/JVM ecosystem has been anything but amazing to the point where I now avoid it like the plague. I can't believe I'm that much different than everyone else, but I see this often enough that it makes me wonder…
I feel like Java is a "choose your own adventure" type thing. You can opt out of a lot of the bad, in my limited experience.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've used both, and I can only imagine your complaints about JIRA's UI are due to how it's been configured for your use. The out of the box user experience is the best I've seen for a web application. A robust yet easy to use 'search' feature is at the heart of many things, like the scrum and kanban boards, as well as widgets that can be put on your own personalize dashboard. You get a nice visual designer for settin…
> I've used both, and I can only imagine your complaints about JIRA's UI are due to how it's been configured for your use. Exactly. There are some companies that go so overboard with Jira customizations that a single "create new issue" requires hitting page down three times to get to the end. And they arrive at that by adding a field here for the QA team, a field there for the Sales team... In the end, you get a mons…
Fogbugz's interface prevents this kind of crazy customization and thus it acts as a defense against the craziness. For a custom workflow with Fogbugz you have to grab a plugin. To get my manager to install a plugin for JIRA took weeks (and I still never got access to the REST API or approval for one plugin months later). So Fogbugz is developer-friendly because it makes it harder for a manager to go in an lock things down and mess around. With JIRA, the micromanager seems to be bundled with JIRA... ;-)
And yet, "Creating a JIRA task is like going to the fucking DMV." https://twitter.com/jesseherlitz/status/648557144845910016
Does the opposite kind of user exist? Has anyone ever met a fanatical JIRA lover? In my experience there are only people that tolerate JIRA on one side of the spectrum and a bunch of people that hate JIRA on the other side.
With just a little tweaking (30 minutes or so on a fresh install), I can have it perfectly configured to match my ideal workflow.
Having mainly done line of business applications my entire life, I have a slightly different take. Jira won because it was not opinionated. You can use it however you want. FogBugz had the philosophy to make bug entry super easy above anything else. Jira will let a manager define new custom fields and make them all compulsory. It perfectly fits how manager at big companies think. FogBugz provides Completion Date Prob…
How would you implement the compliance without technology in place? I'm being serious, how do you think compliance happened in the days of 486s, TRS-80s, punchcards or no computers at all?
There isn't always a technical solution to a social problem, and JIRA's customizations are a micromanagers dreams. I'm sure there are good cases where that level of control is needed (your compliance case) but generally you don't need it.
A bit off topic, and I know I'm sounding like a condescending jerk here but I mean it: but why do people love bugs so much that they want to purchase an entire database program to track them? I mean, if you have more than 10 bugs that are highly important to keep track of, it seems to me that you have much larger problem than whether to purchase JIRA or FogBugz. I mean, either a bug is important to you so prioritize…
But really, "bug tracker" is just a colloquial expression for the more accurate "issue tracker" which can definitely include things like improvements, new features, A/B tests you want to run, etc.
For me, this kinda encapsulates the problem with Jira. Jira is extremely impressive in the number of features, plugins, and customization opportunities it offers, and yet, I can't honestly say even half of the stuff is in any way helpful to me as a developer.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've used both, and I can only imagine your complaints about JIRA's UI are due to how it's been configured for your use. The out of the box user experience is the best I've seen for a web application. A robust yet easy to use 'search' feature is at the heart of many things, like the scrum and kanban boards, as well as widgets that can be put on your own personalize dashboard. You get a nice visual designer for settin…
Whoever designed JIRA's psuedo-markdown text format deserves a special place in hell.