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What's Wrong With This Snowflake?

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21–30 of 33 posts

Re: What's Wrong With This Snowflake?

#21

Okay, so the crystals tend to follow a 6-sided geometry. Why are snowflakes symmetrical ? Why does one arm have to fall into the exact same configuration as the opposite one? Why not have 6 different arms, all following the same 6-sided geometry? What mechanism communicates between the arms to achieve 6-sided symmetry?

Well, it turns out if you look closely that usually the arms aren't exactly the same. Which is rather a clue: the coordinating mechanism isn't some kind of quantum magic that enables the structure in the centre to determine exactly what the arms are like. Rather, (1) the arms all start out roughly the same because the crystal structure of ice has 6-fold symmetry, and then (2) the way growth happens at any place and any given moment is largely determined by (a) the structure there and (b) the external conditions, which vary as the snowflake is forming because it's being blown around. But because the snowflake is quite small, those external conditions are generally much the same for all six arms; so similar arms + similar conditions for each arm --> similar incremental growth for all arms --> still-similar arms, so the symmetry is preserved as the crystal grows. See, e.g., http://www.ams.org/notices/200504/fea-adam-3.pdf .

Re: What's Wrong With This Snowflake?

#22
post #5

Writing letters about the fact that artistic snowflakes aren't the same as "real" snowflakes is like writing to complain that the symbol of a heart for "I love you While scientifically correct, he's also a little pedantic.

The 8-sided paper snowflake exists because it's easy to fold a square piece of paper into eighths (i.e. three times, one diagonal) and cut it. It's so kids can make snowflakes. The correct six is much harder.

I agree with the heart analogy.

Re: What's Wrong With This Snowflake?

#26
Also, real stars are enormous balls of plasma and gas, and look nothing like ☆. I've been waiting about 19 years for an explanation from anyone what the two have in common, and still have gotten none. Maybe I should write a letter to Nature...

Re: What's Wrong With This Snowflake?

#27
post #26

Also, real stars are enormous balls of plasma and gas, and look nothing like ☆. I've been waiting about 19 years for an explanation from anyone what the two have in common, and still have gotten none. Maybe I should write a letter to Nature...

A picture of a bright light taken by a camera lens with a non-circular aperture will generate stars like that. In this case, the 5-pointed star is from a pentagonal aperture.

It's entirely likely this symbol came from pictures of stars, as opposed to real ones.

Re: What's Wrong With This Snowflake?

#28
post #26

Also, real stars are enormous balls of plasma and gas, and look nothing like ☆. I've been waiting about 19 years for an explanation from anyone what the two have in common, and still have gotten none. Maybe I should write a letter to Nature...

A picture of a bright light taken by a camera lens with a non-circular aperture will generate stars like that. In this case, the 5-pointed star is from a pentagonal aperture. It's entirely likely this symbol came from pictures of stars, as opposed to real ones.

[deleted]

Re: What's Wrong With This Snowflake?

#29
post #26

Also, real stars are enormous balls of plasma and gas, and look nothing like ☆. I've been waiting about 19 years for an explanation from anyone what the two have in common, and still have gotten none. Maybe I should write a letter to Nature...

A picture of a bright light taken by a camera lens with a non-circular aperture will generate stars like that. In this case, the 5-pointed star is from a pentagonal aperture. It's entirely likely this symbol came from pictures of stars, as opposed to real ones.

Wow, cool! Thanks! :)

Re: What's Wrong With This Snowflake?

#30

Okay, so the crystals tend to follow a 6-sided geometry. Why are snowflakes symmetrical ? Why does one arm have to fall into the exact same configuration as the opposite one? Why not have 6 different arms, all following the same 6-sided geometry? What mechanism communicates between the arms to achieve 6-sided symmetry?

I don't know, but its probably like a cellular automata on a hexagonal 2d plane (like wolfram 'new kind of science' stuff). I wonder why they're flat/ not 3d- I guess something do do with falling and air resistance. I wonder what role initial conditions or randomness while developing play in the wide variety of unique snowflake designs. If randomness while developing has much to do with it, it seems like the 'limbs' of 1 snowflake should develope differently. Doesn't seem like there'd be that many combinations at the initial molecular level to support that many designs.
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