Mexico’s Missing Forty-Three: One Year, Many Lies, and a Theory • Hacker News Board

Re: Mexico’s Missing Forty-Three: One Year, Many Lies, and a Theory

#21

Post by joe_the_user » Thu, Oct 01, 2015, 5:12 PM UTC

armandososa wrote: post #2

> Now the evidence itself suggested at least a plausible hypothesis: the attacks were triggered when a bus used to transport heroin was commandeered by the students, and that the motive—because the municipal police and others involved in the attacks didn’t know which of the commandeered buses had the drugs aboard, or perhaps had been specially outfitted to smuggle drugs without detection That's a very plausible theor…

The thing about the events and the theories is that the real situation is now evident and the particulars matter only in a symbolic way.

Essentially, the students were murdered by the ruling narco-state fusion. The Federal authorities efforts to blame the events on a fusion of local authorities and narcos likely is perceived as an effort to cover up the general collusion between the state and the narcos on all levels.

This is a world in which during the course of the investigation, 60 other mass graves, of other large groups of people murdered in area were found [1]. When industrial-scale for murder and the disposal of bodies are operating, yeah, it's hard to figure out how certain people died and where they are not.

As a cause, I get the impression that finding the students' murderers now is oriented towards not finding some specific hidden villain or exact turn of events but rather on casting light on the entire narco-state complex where corruption goes up to highest level (and extends into the US).

BBC: "Mexico missing students: Search uncovers 60 mass graves" The attorney general's office says the remains of 129 bodies have been recovered from the graves. None of the remains have been linked to the students who vanished in Iguala." [1] http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-33671636

Re: Mexico’s Missing Forty-Three: One Year, Many Lies, and a Theory

#22

Post by Panoramix » Thu, Oct 01, 2015, 5:40 PM UTC

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #15

dethstar wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's bullshit (about being safe every where unless doing shady business) as an example I was almost abducted while waiting for my bus in the bus terminal. I know of people missing who's only doing was driving thru a highway to go somewhere else. This idea that only Bad People doing Bad Things™ are in risk here is dumb.

Also, drug buyers are customers . It would seem crazy for a dealer to endanger customers on a regular basis. So, buying drugs in a shady part of town should be (relatively) safer than most activities?

You (wrongly) assume drug dealers and their surrounding cast are balanced and rational individuals. There's a huge spread, but when you interact with criminals living on the edge of society you should not expect to be safe.

Re: Mexico’s Missing Forty-Three: One Year, Many Lies, and a Theory

#23

Post by _pmf_ » Thu, Oct 01, 2015, 5:45 PM UTC

betolink wrote: post #20

As a side note, you can see how corrupt the Mexican State is when the police knew there were students in those buses but didn't care about the consequences of their actions.

> but didn't care about the consequences of their actions

Corruption is not black or white. The choice for the police officers is not "take the money or leave it", but "take the money or have your wife and daughters raped and/or killed and thrown in a landfill".

Re: Mexico’s Missing Forty-Three: One Year, Many Lies, and a Theory

#24

Post by betolink » Thu, Oct 01, 2015, 5:49 PM UTC

j_camarena wrote: post #11

misiti3780 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

but it isnt all of mexico right? (forgive me, I have read a lot of books + articles on this but this is my impression) the violence is more concentrated in areas like Sinaloa, Ciudad Juárez, Nuevo Laredo etc. I know there are multiple cartels but it is my understanding that a lot of the murders can be attributed to the war been Sinaloa and the Zetas up north ?

Totally. You'll be safe in Every Mexican city unless trying to get drugs in shady places... and this is a rule to follow Everywhere in the world. As a fact, Mexico City is actually safer than Washington DC.

I wouldn't say in EVERY mexican city, there are "safe" cities where drug related crimes are not a big concern. There are others where you can get shot on the street doing nothing but just walking i.e. most of the border towns, some cities in Guerrero, Veracruz, Tabasco...

Re: Mexico’s Missing Forty-Three: One Year, Many Lies, and a Theory

#25

Post by AJ007 » Thu, Oct 01, 2015, 5:51 PM UTC

billiam wrote: post #17

jstalin wrote: post #6

More victims of the war on drugs...

This isn't really about the war on drugs, but about the tradition in Mexico, not uniquely more than most countries, that literally every state organ is involved in criminal activity, and is in many ways indistinguishable from the crime cartels. It varies a lot across the country, but this has been true for a lot of Mexico's history. It may look crazy to us, but the political establishment has always been a part of wh…

Often a feeling that (insert first world country) is absolutely terrible is cured by a visit to any third world or developing country. What you are describing is hardly unique to Mexico.

Re: Mexico’s Missing Forty-Three: One Year, Many Lies, and a Theory

#26

Post by dragonwriter » Thu, Oct 01, 2015, 5:53 PM UTC

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #15

dethstar wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's bullshit (about being safe every where unless doing shady business) as an example I was almost abducted while waiting for my bus in the bus terminal. I know of people missing who's only doing was driving thru a highway to go somewhere else. This idea that only Bad People doing Bad Things™ are in risk here is dumb.

Also, drug buyers are customers . It would seem crazy for a dealer to endanger customers on a regular basis. So, buying drugs in a shady part of town should be (relatively) safer than most activities?

> Also, drug buyers are customers.

And, thus, targets of every group opposed to the particular one with which they are attempting to do business.

> It would seem crazy for a dealer to endanger customers on a regular basis.

Of course, dealers don't want to target their own customers.

Every other network's customers, well, that's just part of targeting the competition's business more generally.

Re: Mexico’s Missing Forty-Three: One Year, Many Lies, and a Theory

#27

Post by nugget » Thu, Oct 01, 2015, 5:54 PM UTC

billiam wrote: post #17

jstalin wrote: post #6

More victims of the war on drugs...

This isn't really about the war on drugs, but about the tradition in Mexico, not uniquely more than most countries, that literally every state organ is involved in criminal activity, and is in many ways indistinguishable from the crime cartels. It varies a lot across the country, but this has been true for a lot of Mexico's history. It may look crazy to us, but the political establishment has always been a part of wh…

Yes but the more money at stake, the more violence is fueled. There's a big difference between corrupt traffic cops (Mexico in the 70s) and narcos cutting the heads off of dozens of bodies and hanging them from an overpass (Mexico today). The Zetas never would have formed if it weren't for the billions of dollars available from cartel activities. The US can't legalize drugs soon enough for me, and I don't even drink alcohol.

Re: Mexico’s Missing Forty-Three: One Year, Many Lies, and a Theory

#28

Post by Lawtonfogle » Thu, Oct 01, 2015, 5:56 PM UTC

_pmf_ wrote: post #23

betolink wrote: post #20

As a side note, you can see how corrupt the Mexican State is when the police knew there were students in those buses but didn't care about the consequences of their actions.

> but didn't care about the consequences of their actions Corruption is not black or white. The choice for the police officers is not "take the money or leave it", but "take the money or have your wife and daughters raped and/or killed and thrown in a landfill".

Plata o plomo.

Silver or lead.

Take the bribe, becoming dirty with us and gaining benefit for aiding us, or suffer greatly.

Re: Mexico’s Missing Forty-Three: One Year, Many Lies, and a Theory

#29

Post by Lawtonfogle » Thu, Oct 01, 2015, 6:06 PM UTC

AJ007 wrote: post #25

billiam wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't really about the war on drugs, but about the tradition in Mexico, not uniquely more than most countries, that literally every state organ is involved in criminal activity, and is in many ways indistinguishable from the crime cartels. It varies a lot across the country, but this has been true for a lot of Mexico's history. It may look crazy to us, but the political establishment has always been a part of wh…

Often a feeling that (insert first world country) is absolutely terrible is cured by a visit to any third world or developing country. What you are describing is hardly unique to Mexico.

Don't really follow.

It is like telling a friend who just got a great job that they shouldn't be happy because there are other people who won the lottery or had far greater success stories. (I did reverse it from negatives to positives.)

Re: Mexico’s Missing Forty-Three: One Year, Many Lies, and a Theory

#30

Post by Aldo_MX » Thu, Oct 01, 2015, 6:13 PM UTC

I'll be honest here, the 43 students is a tragedy that got, unfortunately, badly politicized and should not be taken seriously anymore.

The official demand by the people behind that political movement is "we want them back alive", but since when a government has been able to bring dead people back to life?

The real issue behind this tragedy is that drug dealers are infiltrated in the government and military forces, and their influence was demonstrated when they "got rid" of those 43 students when the students stole a bus with a cargo of drugs.

The demand behind the movement should be to remove any criminal influence from the government and the military forces, not to bring back to life those 43 students. They're not asking for something that will benefit us as a country, they're asking for something that will never happen, even under the best possible circumstances.