Study: people who eat and exercise the same as people 20 years ago are fatter • Hacker News Board

Re: Study: people who eat and exercise the same as people 20 years ago are fatter

#131

Post by tgb » Thu, Oct 01, 2015, 11:56 AM UTC

acd wrote: post #101

Compare sugar intake now and 20 years ago, sugar metabolizes to fat in the body. So that food is fat free, but high in sugar leads to the same thing in the body anyway. Also look at the sizes of portions, soda and food packages they have all increased too. Fast food consumption which is high in sugar and fat has also increased. Lab rats has shown to be as addicted as cocaine on sugar http://www.forbes.com/sites/jacob…

The whole point of this study was that the difference exists even after controlling for micronutrients. Your low-fat high-sugar theory is incompatible or at least insufficient.

Re: Study: people who eat and exercise the same as people 20 years ago are fatter

#132

Post by citeguised » Thu, Oct 01, 2015, 11:59 AM UTC

DennisP wrote: post #129

citeguised wrote: post #80

Oh, so the laws of physics changed? Wow! No but seriously, this is a terrible article. As soon as you read »…a professor of _kinesiology_ and health science…« you know the statements are coming from people who believe in esoteric pseudoscience. If your burn more energy than you take in, you lose weight. Everything else doesn't make sense. You can get fat by eating 5000 calories worth of paprika every day. Statements…

The laws of physics say you can't burn energy you don't have. If you're restricting calories and your body isn't doing a good job of mobilizing energy from fat reserves, then one way or another you'll burn less energy. You'll fidget less, think poorly, turn up the thermostat, lack the motivation to exercise, and if you do get a little exercise you won't be very vigorous about it. No amount of willpower can overcome t…

Yes I had the same problems when I started counting calories. It's very hard of course, and if I stop keeping track there is also the danger of eating again like I always did, thus gaining back all the 20 kilos.

The thinking poorly/lack of motivation part was over two weeks after starting, thankfully.

Restricting your diet is no fun at all, that's why you need to know what your motivation is. (mine is Dad's/Granddad's Diabetes)

Re: Study: people who eat and exercise the same as people 20 years ago are fatter

#133

Post by MichaelGG » Thu, Oct 01, 2015, 12:02 PM UTC

com2kid wrote: post #93

MichaelGG wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone seems to warn about sodium and potassium while on keto - magnesium too. Apparently the suggested intakes are quite high and supplementing is the only way to get there. It might have just been placebo or drinking a hot cup of broth (with potassium salt in) but it made me feel better some days. I'd also second that it's really hard to eat a massive amount of calories on keto. Water loss and perhaps some change…

Magnesium is good. Potassium, I eat leafy greens or Ostrim ( http://www.protos-inc.com/ ), which is low fat but has no carbs and lots of potassium. They also taste good, they are one of my after gym gotos. Gaining muscle on keto /is/ hard. You can do it (/r/ketogains can help!) but wow you have to stuff yourself, which is sort of odd for Keto!

A quick search says the recommendation amount of potassium a day is 4.7G for adults. While spinach and those Ostrim things are high (Ostrim says 330mg of potassium), you still have to eat a LOT to get close to the recommendation. I found it easier to throw that potassium salt into chicken bouillon (getting sodium + potassium).

Also it's funny how the supplments folks are allowed to sell potassium. There's regulatory issues of having more than 99mg per pill (could damage stomachs or something). So these companies market compounds with potassium that aren't in bio-available forms.[1] "550mg!" people see, making them think they're all set (and hah, pulled one over on terrible government regulators). Nope. Same happens with magnesium. Seems rather misleading, even though they are printing the truth.

1: http://www.amazon.com/Nature-Made-Potassium-Gluconate-Tablet...

Re: Study: people who eat and exercise the same as people 20 years ago are fatter

#134

Post by maxerickson » Thu, Oct 01, 2015, 12:03 PM UTC

mattlutze wrote: post #130

cdnsteve wrote: post #126

Does this study take into account the exponential growth of portion size? Food portions in the USA are out of control, four times larger than the 1950's. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/23/portion-sizes-infog...

"They found a very surprising correlation: A given person, in 2006, eating the same amount of calories, taking in the same quantities of macronutrients like protein and fat, and exercising the same amount as a person of the same age did in 1988 would have a BMI that was about 2.3 points higher. In other words, people today are about 10 percent heavier than people were in the 1980s, even if they follow the exact same…

It can still be explained by people eating more.

Take a 1980 individual that had been eating a bmi23 diet and start feeding them a bmi26 level of calories and they will probably gain weight.

Take a 2015 individual's diet from bmi26 to bmi23 and they will probably lose weight.

Re: Study: people who eat and exercise the same as people 20 years ago are fatter

#135

Post by DennisP » Thu, Oct 01, 2015, 12:04 PM UTC

theophrastus wrote: post #25

Guzba wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A person gains weight because they intake more calories than they expend. Certainly. A room gets more crowded when more people enter than exit. Obviously true. Neither of these statements tell you why that is happening though, and that is important thing. So, why are people eating more calories? Or, since the articles says they aren't, could the sources of calories matter? (They do.)

This simple thermodynamic model intake minus expenditure leaves out (at least) one dynamic metabolic feature: this engine can change its tendency for storage (weight gain) in a single organism or in a community of organisms given time. A change in the community storage tendency is what is alluded to in the linked article. That is, the organism can allow the excess calories to pass on by, or it can store it as fat (or…

And the other variable is how well the body turns fat reserves back into available energy. If that mechanism is inefficient then the equilibrium will be higher body fat.

People seem to have an idea that every human body can just instantly burn however much fat it needs to burn to meet demand. It seems more likely that there's a limit to how fast the body can burn fat, which for some people is unusually low, and that if there's not enough energy available you'll be forced by thermodynamics to move less, think poorly, and produce less body heat.

Re: Study: people who eat and exercise the same as people 20 years ago are fatter

#136

Post by codexjourneys » Thu, Oct 01, 2015, 12:11 PM UTC

I suspect the answer has to do with the microbiome and its cumulative response over decades to antibiotics and tiny changes introduced in food (shifts in cooking oils, dairy product additives, even animal feed that then indirectly impacts our own microbiome when we eat meat or eggs or dairy, etc.). The problem is that studies on the microbiome tend to be limited and recent. Long-term studies are especially lacking. What we do have indicates the microbiome may be vital to not just digestion but also our immune system function, emotional well-being and weight.

Probiotics might be helpful here, but in no way are we close to an exact science on the microbiome.

Re: Study: people who eat and exercise the same as people 20 years ago are fatter

#137

Post by winthrowe » Thu, Oct 01, 2015, 12:16 PM UTC

ocharles wrote: post #105

weego wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We had cars and tv/video games/films 20 years ago. I know, I was there.

I'm aware of that. You didn't however have such a reliance on cars, nor the convenience afforded to having a car (e.g., the popularity of drive-thrus now, which were only getting started in 1980). There is such easy access to things like Netflix and Steam - it is very easy these days to waste entire days away without even noticing.

1980 was thirty-five years ago, not twenty.

Re: Study: people who eat and exercise the same as people 20 years ago are fatter

#138

Post by citeguised » Thu, Oct 01, 2015, 12:37 PM UTC

agravier wrote: post #87

agravier wrote: post #39

It's due to sugar in the vast majority of cases. Some starting point: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM

I'd like some explanations for the downvotes. What I wrote is documented and I provide a link to a good source of explanations.

The explanation is that facts don't matter for some people.

Re: Study: people who eat and exercise the same as people 20 years ago are fatter

#139

Post by 300bps » Thu, Oct 01, 2015, 12:41 PM UTC

netcan wrote: post #107

I have no particular expertise in this area, but I've been making the "we don't know why people are fat" argument to whoever will listen for a while. Doctors (socially, not at an appointment FWIW), academics… I'm actually quite surprised how often they've been thinking along the same lines and/or they are convinced by the general idea. basically: People have been getting fatter, to pathological levels for quite a whi…

People are fat because of all the little and big things they do on a daily basis.

What you eat is the most important thing. How you exercise is next.

What you do in your leisure time is important too. In the 70s, I don't recall anyone binge-watching Netflix while sitting on a couch. TV just wasn't that great and there were only a few specific times per day or week that were something you might be interested in. I don't remember many people playing video games for hours at a time. Sure some minority of people did but the games just weren't that fun and anyone that played Pacman on the Atari 2600 knows that. Kids played outside more, and throughout the neighborhood not just in their own back yard. Adults socialized outside more. There was no Facebook to spend hours per day sitting and reading. I don't think the 70s had Amazon.com either so people burned more calories walking through stores. I distinctly remember shopping with my parents as a kid and it was exhausting walking through a mall for hours.

I don't see any evidence the study took any of this technological change into consideration.

Re: Study: people who eat and exercise the same as people 20 years ago are fatter

#140

Post by saiya-jin » Thu, Oct 01, 2015, 12:45 PM UTC

netcan wrote: post #107

I have no particular expertise in this area, but I've been making the "we don't know why people are fat" argument to whoever will listen for a while. Doctors (socially, not at an appointment FWIW), academics… I'm actually quite surprised how often they've been thinking along the same lines and/or they are convinced by the general idea. basically: People have been getting fatter, to pathological levels for quite a whi…

it ain't that hard, and it actually makes sense. i can take a look in my own family and it's apparent.

answer is - we became lazy, so slowly that many actually think that nothing changed. sample job you mention - carpenter now doesn't do as much physical work as he used do do 500 years ago. the ones who don't use modern approach, they are skinny, muscular athlete-looking types, even if they are 50-60 years old.

most people really have very sedentary lifestyle, and even the same profession got more passive over time. you don't need to run around that much in the office searching for some document, if you have DMS for that. all is electronic, reachable with few clicks/taps. Especially in US, but also generally in 1st world countries, people are using cars all the time. For my parents, the only way to do shopping was to carry 10-20kg shopping bags 500m back home from shop, usually few times a week. These tiny examples stack up.

Add to this crappy oversweetened, junkish food most people are eating, and it couldn't end up any other way. I live practically in France (Geneva), but most colleagues eat fine tasting, buy shitty composition-wise foods. Most countries fare worse on this. A bit of veggie at the plate doesn't make it magically good and healthy.

Also, most people lack any kind of discipline when it comes to food. Spoiling oneself ("treat yourself" bullsh*t), small cheat snacks that somehow don't count to whole food equation, people focused too much on work, and not on their well being.

I could go on and on, but why, its apparent. we are to blame, nobody else. you and I choose every day what we put in our mouth, and how much physical exercise we do. Eat better, less (especially dinner), exercise more and all will be good. But for many people, for some reason this seems to be too-hard-to-succeed challenge in life.