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Some companies in Sweden are testing a six-hour work day

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Re: Some companies in Sweden are testing a six-hour work day

#61

Post by eitally »

it_learnses wrote: post #5

Can't wait till this happens in North America. I hope we realize shorter work days and basic income in the next couple of decades. Then we will truly have a golden age.

In all honesty, many knowledge worker jobs in the US are already un-clocked. Essentially, the company has an expectation that a job gets done and the employee has an expectation that they'll generally speaking be present at the office roughly during core hours. The unspoken agreement is that this ends up being roughly 40 hours per week, with concessions made on the employee's part when things get tough and on the employer's part to offset the aforementioned extra time.

Ultimately, this serves the employer's purposes more than the employees', but it's better than the bad old days of clock-in, clock-out. Imho, most managers [at least in tech companies, but not just the big name tech companies] operate this "just get your job done" way.

This is especially common in the Bay Area where a fair number of folks have 1.5-2hr each way commutes.

Re: Some companies in Sweden are testing a six-hour work day

#62

Post by aianus »

bmelton wrote: post #57
nickff wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The obligations extend well beyond the debt. Social security, medicare, and medicaid will be much more costly than the debt for at least 20 years (at current levels). Public sector pensions are another huge non-debt liability.

Another interesting wrinkle that lukeschlather brings up is that if the productivity increases are the result of more and more automation, does that not also mean that there are fewer and fewer people paying into social security? Or am I misunderstanding the statement?

Whoever owns the machines is going to be paying a lot of taxes on their outrageous income, though.

Re: Some companies in Sweden are testing a six-hour work day

#63

Post by aianus »

works_remote_ wrote: post #18
Avalaxy wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the US should focus on more paid vacations days for starters.

or time off in general. Just a small sample of the cruelty inflicted on people by many companies: - Significant other or child dies -- too bad, so sad, go without pay. - Having a kid? Hope you enjoy not being paid while you have that extra medical expenses, or being marginalized. Worst case? You get fired. - Sick? Sucks to be you. (More of an aside, but I never personally understood the reason why the economy doesn't…

If I don't want children of my own because they're ridiculously expensive, why should I subsidize yours? There's no reason a private employer should pay you more because you want a kid.

Re: Some companies in Sweden are testing a six-hour work day

#64

Post by bmelton »

aianus wrote: post #62
bmelton wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another interesting wrinkle that lukeschlather brings up is that if the productivity increases are the result of more and more automation, does that not also mean that there are fewer and fewer people paying into social security? Or am I misunderstanding the statement?

Whoever owns the machines is going to be paying a lot of taxes on their outrageous income, though.

That's only assuming that costs go up or stay the same. They might, but if the tax burden becomes higher than the net increase in production, they could very well lower prices to better compete.

Long story short, you MIGHT be right, but if the economy is depressed by all the newly jobless, it seems a stretch that prices would skyrocket, or even stay flat so long as automation provides more wiggle room at the margins.

Re: Some companies in Sweden are testing a six-hour work day

#65

Post by buildops »

eitally wrote: post #61
it_learnses wrote: post #5

Can't wait till this happens in North America. I hope we realize shorter work days and basic income in the next couple of decades. Then we will truly have a golden age.

In all honesty, many knowledge worker jobs in the US are already un-clocked. Essentially, the company has an expectation that a job gets done and the employee has an expectation that they'll generally speaking be present at the office roughly during core hours. The unspoken agreement is that this ends up being roughly 40 hours per week, with concessions made on the employee's part when things get tough and on the emp…

So ultimately what hours do most tech/knowledge companies work in the US? 9-5? 9-6? I've also heard stories of 9-9 or worse but wonder how much is startup myth.

Re: Some companies in Sweden are testing a six-hour work day

#67

Post by e12e »

aianus wrote: post #59
e12e wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He(?) said: > Sure there are a few experiments but the baseline is that sweden (which has a huge public sector) cannot afford it without raising taxes further. The general idea is that while you might just kick office workers out the door 2 hours early, and not see a drop in what the actually get done (and there are a lot of office workers in the public sector) - in other areas, notably healthcare (and also Miletary,…

Why would you pay them the same? Hire 14% more workers, work them 35h instead of 40h, and pay them 14% less each. Costs the same, doesn't it?

How will they afford housing? Pay their student loans? Buy food?

Besides, if they generate the same value - why would you pay them less?

Re: Some companies in Sweden are testing a six-hour work day

#68

Post by e12e »

e12e wrote: post #52
asdfologist wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you said they'd have to raise taxes, which directly implies that you think it would hurt productivity.

He(?) said: > Sure there are a few experiments but the baseline is that sweden (which has a huge public sector) cannot afford it without raising taxes further. The general idea is that while you might just kick office workers out the door 2 hours early, and not see a drop in what the actually get done (and there are a lot of office workers in the public sector) - in other areas, notably healthcare (and also Miletary,…

Argh, bitten by formatting - too late to edit. Apart from the spelling errors, that should be:

3 (workers/shifts) * 8 hours to 4 (workers/shifts) * 6 hours.

Re: Some companies in Sweden are testing a six-hour work day

#69

Post by riffraff »

aianus wrote: post #59
e12e wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He(?) said: > Sure there are a few experiments but the baseline is that sweden (which has a huge public sector) cannot afford it without raising taxes further. The general idea is that while you might just kick office workers out the door 2 hours early, and not see a drop in what the actually get done (and there are a lot of office workers in the public sector) - in other areas, notably healthcare (and also Miletary,…

Why would you pay them the same? Hire 14% more workers, work them 35h instead of 40h, and pay them 14% less each. Costs the same, doesn't it?

Many people will not be happy to get a 14% wage cut, and would prefer working longer. Also, firms have a tendency to just require people to work harder/overtime rather than hiring more.

Finally, retirement benefits decrease if they are awarded based on how much income taxes you payed, which not everyone is comfortable with.

That is why projects to have a legal 35 hours week usually have extra stuff attached to them, such as integration from special government funds.

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