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Some companies in Sweden are testing a six-hour work day

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Re: Some companies in Sweden are testing a six-hour work day

#31

Post by [deleted] »

lukeschlather wrote: post #27
tsotha wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where will we get the money for that? We're already trillions of dollars short on future obligations.

"Trillions of dollars" doesn't really give any insight into the scope of the problem, it just suggests the number is really large. The scope of the problem is that we have about 1.5 years worth of GDP in debt. So, with yearly payments of 10% of GDP, we could pay down the debt in 15 years. Suppose through automation we increase productivity by 50%. We could shorten the work week by 25%, add a tax to pay down 10% of th…

[deleted]

Re: Some companies in Sweden are testing a six-hour work day

#32

Post by jontro »

xlm1717 wrote: post #22
jontro wrote: post #7

As a swede I think the title is highly misleading. Sweden is not shifting to a 6-hour workday. Sure there are a few experiments but the baseline is that sweden (which has a huge public sector) cannot afford it without raising taxes further. The current forecasts for the future indicates that taxes has to be raised a lot just to maintain the current standard. I would be very surprised if the 6 hour workday would be pr…

As an American, I'm interested in knowing why it would require Sweden to raise taxes. Since you mentioned a huge public sector, is it a case of needing extra workers to work shifts so that pubic services are run at the usual hours? I imagine private companies would be able to get away with it, as long as all their competitors also switch to six-hour workdays.

From just a quick googling around I've seen estimated costs for a 30 hour work-week the public budget between 86 [1] - 236 [2] billion SEK/year. The total budget last year year was 862 billion. Somewhere that money has to come from

Some Swedish links about it: [1]: http://www.etc.se/inrikes/sa-tycker-oppositionen-om-sextimma...

[2]: http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/val2014/sa-mycket-kostar-fis...

Re: Some companies in Sweden are testing a six-hour work day

#33

Post by pnut »

Havoc wrote: post #8
it_learnses wrote: post #5

Can't wait till this happens in North America. I hope we realize shorter work days and basic income in the next couple of decades. Then we will truly have a golden age.

I fully expect the US to be the very last to switch.

US businesses will do one better!

0-hour workweeks for everyone, the second robotic slaves are economically advantageous!

Re: Some companies in Sweden are testing a six-hour work day

#34

Post by jontro »

jontro wrote: post #32
xlm1717 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an American, I'm interested in knowing why it would require Sweden to raise taxes. Since you mentioned a huge public sector, is it a case of needing extra workers to work shifts so that pubic services are run at the usual hours? I imagine private companies would be able to get away with it, as long as all their competitors also switch to six-hour workdays.

From just a quick googling around I've seen estimated costs for a 30 hour work-week the public budget between 86 [1] - 236 [2] billion SEK/year. The total budget last year year was 862 billion. Somewhere that money has to come from Some Swedish links about it: [1]: http://www.etc.se/inrikes/sa-tycker-oppositionen-om-sextimma... [2]: http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/val2014/sa-mycket-kostar-fis...

Here's some more facts about the public sector. Translated from: http://www.scb.se/Statistik/_Publikationer/OE0903_2014A01_BR...

Different measures of government size, 2012. Percentage of GDP.

Public authorities' share of the total value added: 18%

Public sector consumption and investments: 30%

Employed in the public sector: 28%

Employed in the public sector and public enterprises 33%

General government expenditure 51%

General government revenue 50%

Re: Some companies in Sweden are testing a six-hour work day

#35

Post by ljk »

Havoc wrote: post #8
it_learnses wrote: post #5

Can't wait till this happens in North America. I hope we realize shorter work days and basic income in the next couple of decades. Then we will truly have a golden age.

I fully expect the US to be the very last to switch.

or never switch, like the metric system

Re: Some companies in Sweden are testing a six-hour work day

#36

Post by nickff »

works_remote_ wrote: post #18
Avalaxy wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the US should focus on more paid vacations days for starters.

or time off in general. Just a small sample of the cruelty inflicted on people by many companies: - Significant other or child dies -- too bad, so sad, go without pay. - Having a kid? Hope you enjoy not being paid while you have that extra medical expenses, or being marginalized. Worst case? You get fired. - Sick? Sucks to be you. (More of an aside, but I never personally understood the reason why the economy doesn't…

>"the economy doesn't better support having children"

What do you mean by "the economy"? It is not clear (to me) why employers should pay fertile people more than sterile ones, or those who dislike contraception more than those who use it. Incentivizing child-bearing as a means of increasing future sales is not a good investment, even if we assume that said company will be a going concern by the time the child becomes financially independent.

The solution to most of your issues seems to be increasing the number of opportunities available to people; this would provide them options, and additonal competition between employers would improve treatment of employees. We already see that in-demand employees are treated very well; the key is to make everyone more productive, and increase demand for labor services. How this can be achieved is, of course, a topic of great debate.

Re: Some companies in Sweden are testing a six-hour work day

#37

Post by Skinney »

xlm1717 wrote: post #22
jontro wrote: post #7

As a swede I think the title is highly misleading. Sweden is not shifting to a 6-hour workday. Sure there are a few experiments but the baseline is that sweden (which has a huge public sector) cannot afford it without raising taxes further. The current forecasts for the future indicates that taxes has to be raised a lot just to maintain the current standard. I would be very surprised if the 6 hour workday would be pr…

As an American, I'm interested in knowing why it would require Sweden to raise taxes. Since you mentioned a huge public sector, is it a case of needing extra workers to work shifts so that pubic services are run at the usual hours? I imagine private companies would be able to get away with it, as long as all their competitors also switch to six-hour workdays.

I'm Norwegian, and here we have two parties who advocate a six-hour workday. One of the parties wants a six-hour workday with pay compensation, meaning we still pay them for eight-hour days even if they only work six-hours. I'm not sure this is the case in Sweden. Even if it isn't, a six-hour day means people work less, meaning you probably need to hire more people (increased productivity doesn't help in the healthcare, police or fire sector, you still need people at work) which means higher pensions and other benefits.

Re: Some companies in Sweden are testing a six-hour work day

#38

Post by nickff »

skwirl wrote: post #29
Havoc wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fully expect the US to be the very last to switch.

I'm kind of Ok with letting other countries try this one out first. I'm receptive to the idea of basic income, but the potential unintended consequences seem terrifying.

If anyone is to try this, the states are ideal candidates. People can (and do) vote with their feet when states implement negative policies, which is one reason they are "laboratories of democracy". In addition, it is clear that they have the consitutional authority to do this (while the federal government does not).

Re: Some companies in Sweden are testing a six-hour work day

#40

Post by err4nt »

While I agree that an arbitrary eight-hour work day may not suit every task the best, I don't see why switching it to six hours is any less arbitrary.

As a self-employed person my pay _directly_ correlates to the amount of hours I grind away. I actively try to make my working time more efficient, but cutting down on hours wouldn't get me anywhere.

Why not advocate that shifts be of a length required by the task alone and not a preset amount of time each day?

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