Live data from Hacker News

Inside Japan’s Disposable Housing Market

psmag.com

31–40 of 43 posts

Re: Inside Japan’s Disposable Housing Market

#31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a completely different understanding of this. Buying a house, the carpets, the drapes, all have to be replaced. Because of a taboo against using things soiled by other people. No amount of cleaning can get them clean enough to overcome a taboo. Same with cars. There is apparently little/no used car market in Japan. Lots of our (USA) spare parts for economy cars come over on ships from Japan. Because, no market…

> There is apparently little/no used car market in Japan. At least historically, that's because the inspection process for keeping old cars on the road is so onerous that many people don't want to bother an just got new cars[1]. I don't know how things are now, but it sound like the inspections are still expensive[2]. [1] (90s) http://www.nytimes.com/1993/09/12/world/why-the-cars-in-japa... [2] (more recent) http://w…

exactly. I worked for years in the JP car export business (tech side of things)

Re: Inside Japan’s Disposable Housing Market

#32

I dont think its as bad as it sounds now. Oh btw my wife is Japanese, and were currently living in Yokohama. Now there is a taboo againt house from the early 80's(ill have to check with her for the exact date), as there were different building laws in relation to earthquakes. Also a lot of the houses that are built with wood are undesirable -earthquakes, fire risk etc. We just rented a fairly good sized wooden apartm…

Update: she woke up, 1985 or 86 is when the law was introduced, and she says she always gives it a year or two after that.

Also the law has been updated multiple times.

Hell i figure if the house is still standing after the last one and shows no damage, were good to go. (Proper check for damage, not me checking haha).

Re: Inside Japan’s Disposable Housing Market

#33

I dont think its as bad as it sounds now. Oh btw my wife is Japanese, and were currently living in Yokohama. Now there is a taboo againt house from the early 80's(ill have to check with her for the exact date), as there were different building laws in relation to earthquakes. Also a lot of the houses that are built with wood are undesirable -earthquakes, fire risk etc. We just rented a fairly good sized wooden apartm…

a lot of the houses that are built with wood are undesirable -earthquakes, fire risk etc

Many American houses are colloquially called "stick houses"[1] because they are built from 2"x4" or 2"x6" lumber. These are often also called "wood frame"[2].

In an earthquake I'd rather take my chances in a wood frame house over one built from bricks, concrete, and rebar. After earthquakes, I've seen too many collapsed concrete buildings on TV, with people buried under tons of rubble. A wood frame house is generally too light to collapse in such a way as to pancake the occupants.

I agree with you in terms of other risks. E.g. we've had a lot of forest fires this summer, and many wood frame houses were lost. All that remained were the concrete foundations and the brick fireplaces.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stick-built_home [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wood-frame_house

Re: Inside Japan’s Disposable Housing Market

#34

I dont think its as bad as it sounds now. Oh btw my wife is Japanese, and were currently living in Yokohama. Now there is a taboo againt house from the early 80's(ill have to check with her for the exact date), as there were different building laws in relation to earthquakes. Also a lot of the houses that are built with wood are undesirable -earthquakes, fire risk etc. We just rented a fairly good sized wooden apartm…

a lot of the houses that are built with wood are undesirable -earthquakes, fire risk etc Many American houses are colloquially called "stick houses"[1] because they are built from 2"x4" or 2"x6" lumber. These are often also called "wood frame"[2]. In an earthquake I'd rather take my chances in a wood frame house over one built from bricks, concrete, and rebar. After earthquakes, I've seen too many collapsed concrete…

I have kind of the same thinking, although during the last big one, my inlaws house is rebar and it held up amazingly well, while a few around theirs(of wood), didnt. Not exactly solid evidence though, im not sure on their build quality, where my father in law paid extra to make his house over quality(compared to the law based minimums at the time).

Re: Inside Japan’s Disposable Housing Market

#35
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen videos of lots full of perfectly working, but slightly used, appliances waiting to be dismantled and recycled in Japan. They don't even bother blocking entrance to the lot and they're mostly unattended, so anybody could in theory, just drive up and fill their house with all the appliances they need for nothing. You also rarely see old cars on the road because (my understanding is) that taxes incentivize peo…

I feel like it's a fallacy that things need to be constantly thrown out and replaced for an economy to be healthy. If someone doesn't have to spend $1000 on new appliances, it's not like that thousand dollars disappears from the economy. Either the person spends that money on something else or sticks it in their savings account and the bank loans some of it out for someone else to spend. (This is basic econ theory, s…

The Parable of the broken window;

  Have you ever witnessed the anger of the good shopkeeper,
  James Goodfellow, when his careless son has happened to 
  break a pane of glass? If you have been present at such a 
  scene, you will most assuredly bear witness to the fact 
  that every one of the spectators, were there even thirty 
  of them, by common consent apparently, offered the 
  unfortunate owner this invariable consolation – "It is an 
  ill wind that blows nobody good. Everybody must live, and 
  what would become of the glaziers if panes of glass were 
  never broken?"
  

  Now, this form of condolence contains an entire theory, 
  which it will be well to show up in this simple case, 
  seeing that it is precisely the same as that which, 
  unhappily, regulates the greater part of our economical
  institutions.
  

  Suppose it cost six francs to repair the damage, and you 
  say that the accident brings six francs to the glazier's 
  trade – that it encourages that trade to the amount of 
  six francs – I grant it; I have not a word to say against 
  it; you reason justly. The glazier comes, performs his 
  task, receives his six francs, rubs his hands, and, in 
  his heart, blesses the careless child. All this is that 
  which is seen.
  
  
  But if, on the other hand, you come to the conclusion, as 
  is too often the case, that it is a good thing to break 
  windows, that it causes money to circulate, and that the 
  encouragement of industry in general will be the result 
  of it, you will oblige me to call out, "Stop there! Your 
  theory is confined to that which is seen; it takes no 
  account of that which is not seen."
  
  
   It is not seen that as our shopkeeper has spent six 
  francs upon one thing, he cannot spend them upon another. 
  It is not seen that if he had not had a window to 
  replace, he would, perhaps, have replaced his old shoes, 
  or added another book to his library. In short, he would 
  have employed his six francs in some way, which this 
  accident has prevented.
  
  Frédéric Bastiat, 
  in his 1850 essay "Ce qu'on voit et ce qu'on ne voit pas" 
  (That Which Is Seen and That Which Is Not Seen)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_broken_window

Re: Inside Japan’s Disposable Housing Market

#36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a completely different understanding of this. Buying a house, the carpets, the drapes, all have to be replaced. Because of a taboo against using things soiled by other people. No amount of cleaning can get them clean enough to overcome a taboo. Same with cars. There is apparently little/no used car market in Japan. Lots of our (USA) spare parts for economy cars come over on ships from Japan. Because, no market…

> There is apparently little/no used car market in Japan. At least historically, that's because the inspection process for keeping old cars on the road is so onerous that many people don't want to bother an just got new cars[1]. I don't know how things are now, but it sound like the inspections are still expensive[2]. [1] (90s) http://www.nytimes.com/1993/09/12/world/why-the-cars-in-japa... [2] (more recent) http://w…

Yes. This is deliberate policy by the government to push people to buy more cars than they would otherwise buy.

Re: Inside Japan’s Disposable Housing Market

#37
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like it's a fallacy that things need to be constantly thrown out and replaced for an economy to be healthy. If someone doesn't have to spend $1000 on new appliances, it's not like that thousand dollars disappears from the economy. Either the person spends that money on something else or sticks it in their savings account and the bank loans some of it out for someone else to spend. (This is basic econ theory, s…

> If someone doesn't have to spend $1000 on new appliances, it's not like that thousand dollars disappears from the economy. Yes it does. Modern economic systems are built on consumerism. Saving large sums of money acts like a vacuum on currency and brings markets to a halt. Flowing money lubricates the economy. That's basically the sum total of the most recent economic crisis, money wasn't moving, so two presidentia…

I'm far from an expert but this is from the Keynes camp(?)

Re: Inside Japan’s Disposable Housing Market

#38
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a completely different understanding of this. Buying a house, the carpets, the drapes, all have to be replaced. Because of a taboo against using things soiled by other people. No amount of cleaning can get them clean enough to overcome a taboo. Same with cars. There is apparently little/no used car market in Japan. Lots of our (USA) spare parts for economy cars come over on ships from Japan. Because, no market…

I've seen videos of lots full of perfectly working, but slightly used, appliances waiting to be dismantled and recycled in Japan. They don't even bother blocking entrance to the lot and they're mostly unattended, so anybody could in theory, just drive up and fill their house with all the appliances they need for nothing. You also rarely see old cars on the road because (my understanding is) that taxes incentivize peo…

>You also rarely see old cars on the road because (my understanding is) that taxes incentivize people to ditch old cars quickly and get new ones.

This is correct. You have to pay a hefty bi-annual inspection fee (beginning three years after a new purchase) to keep a vehicle on the road if it's over 250cc: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor-vehicle_inspection_%28Ja...

At some point in a vehicle's life, it becomes more economically viable to get rid of it than to keep it up to snuff to pass the inspection. The other vehicle taxes are also based on displacement, so you'll see lots of cute little 1.3L or lower displacement inline-four vans riding around. I kept turning my head because I thought I was hearing motorcycles!

Re: Inside Japan’s Disposable Housing Market

#39
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like it's a fallacy that things need to be constantly thrown out and replaced for an economy to be healthy. If someone doesn't have to spend $1000 on new appliances, it's not like that thousand dollars disappears from the economy. Either the person spends that money on something else or sticks it in their savings account and the bank loans some of it out for someone else to spend. (This is basic econ theory, s…

> If someone doesn't have to spend $1000 on new appliances, it's not like that thousand dollars disappears from the economy. Yes it does. Modern economic systems are built on consumerism. Saving large sums of money acts like a vacuum on currency and brings markets to a halt. Flowing money lubricates the economy. That's basically the sum total of the most recent economic crisis, money wasn't moving, so two presidentia…

That theory is based on the assumption that an economy requires consistent purchase of the same products, so in that theory planned obsolescene is great. Yet, the alternative to consumers continuously replacing "old" gear with slightly newer gear is not that a person just deciding they don't want to buy anything and placing that money in savings, they than have money to buy OTHER things, or for entertainment, travel, festivals, trips to mars, adding a 3rd story to their house, et cetera.

Re: Inside Japan’s Disposable Housing Market

#40
post #15

A fantastic resource for understanding this weird market is the "Buying a House in Japan" playlist on this youtube channel [1] He goes through lots of this weirdness in the Japanese market as he looks to buy and restore an older home. I suspect there's a "let's boost GDP with more construction" problem in Japan. It's resulted in lots of fantastic infrastructure, but also bizarre half-formed highways, unfinished bridg…

Thankyou, ill be checking that out when i get time.
Post reply on HN