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Inside Japan’s Disposable Housing Market

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Re: Inside Japan’s Disposable Housing Market

#21

Post by bane »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #6
eloisant wrote: post #3

"In a culture obsessed with newness" It's mostly because of earthquakes, they got used to buildings being temporary. Also sismic regulations are constantly evolving, so newer is safer (because more resistant to earthquake thanks to modern technics) and after some time it's more effective to destroy a building than do the necessary (and mandatory) work to keep up with the regulations. So no, the Japanese don't want ne…

I have a completely different understanding of this. Buying a house, the carpets, the drapes, all have to be replaced. Because of a taboo against using things soiled by other people. No amount of cleaning can get them clean enough to overcome a taboo. Same with cars. There is apparently little/no used car market in Japan. Lots of our (USA) spare parts for economy cars come over on ships from Japan. Because, no market…

I've seen videos of lots full of perfectly working, but slightly used, appliances waiting to be dismantled and recycled in Japan. They don't even bother blocking entrance to the lot and they're mostly unattended, so anybody could in theory, just drive up and fill their house with all the appliances they need for nothing.

You also rarely see old cars on the road because (my understanding is) that taxes incentivize people to ditch old cars quickly and get new ones.

My thinking is this extends through various parts of Japanese society, and combined with various taboos, is used by the government to help keep the economy moving. Otherwise, the culturally thrifty Japanese population would just keep everything they have forever and the economy would be in worse shape than it is now.

Re: Inside Japan’s Disposable Housing Market

#22

Post by scratchandsniff »

bane wrote: post #21
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a completely different understanding of this. Buying a house, the carpets, the drapes, all have to be replaced. Because of a taboo against using things soiled by other people. No amount of cleaning can get them clean enough to overcome a taboo. Same with cars. There is apparently little/no used car market in Japan. Lots of our (USA) spare parts for economy cars come over on ships from Japan. Because, no market…

I've seen videos of lots full of perfectly working, but slightly used, appliances waiting to be dismantled and recycled in Japan. They don't even bother blocking entrance to the lot and they're mostly unattended, so anybody could in theory, just drive up and fill their house with all the appliances they need for nothing. You also rarely see old cars on the road because (my understanding is) that taxes incentivize peo…

This concept is fascinating given the general perception that Japanese products have for reliability and longevity.

Re: Inside Japan’s Disposable Housing Market

#23

Post by rcthompson »

bane wrote: post #21
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a completely different understanding of this. Buying a house, the carpets, the drapes, all have to be replaced. Because of a taboo against using things soiled by other people. No amount of cleaning can get them clean enough to overcome a taboo. Same with cars. There is apparently little/no used car market in Japan. Lots of our (USA) spare parts for economy cars come over on ships from Japan. Because, no market…

I've seen videos of lots full of perfectly working, but slightly used, appliances waiting to be dismantled and recycled in Japan. They don't even bother blocking entrance to the lot and they're mostly unattended, so anybody could in theory, just drive up and fill their house with all the appliances they need for nothing. You also rarely see old cars on the road because (my understanding is) that taxes incentivize peo…

I feel like it's a fallacy that things need to be constantly thrown out and replaced for an economy to be healthy. If someone doesn't have to spend $1000 on new appliances, it's not like that thousand dollars disappears from the economy. Either the person spends that money on something else or sticks it in their savings account and the bank loans some of it out for someone else to spend. (This is basic econ theory, so I'm sure it's a little more complicated than that.) How is it better for an economy when people have to spend money replacing existing things instead of on buying new stuff?

Re: Inside Japan’s Disposable Housing Market

#24

Post by seanmcdirmid »

cgh wrote: post #20
gherkin0 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They even make it further afield than that. I was in Peru about 5 years ago, and saw a lot of used Japanese cars. IIRC, they didn't even bother converting some from right hand to left hand drive, which is how I think I noticed.

Also BC, Canada. Those Mitsubishi Delica vans are popular because they are camperized and have four wheel drive. It's amazing there isn't another option built for the domestic market rather than having to import fifteen year old, right hand drive vehicles like these.

And the only way to get a cute Daihatsu Copen is to import directly from Japan. So many nice cars there that I wish they would export more and convert to right hand driving.

Re: Inside Japan’s Disposable Housing Market

#25

Post by jcromartie »

eloisant wrote: post #3

"In a culture obsessed with newness" It's mostly because of earthquakes, they got used to buildings being temporary. Also sismic regulations are constantly evolving, so newer is safer (because more resistant to earthquake thanks to modern technics) and after some time it's more effective to destroy a building than do the necessary (and mandatory) work to keep up with the regulations. So no, the Japanese don't want ne…

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/this-japanese-shrin...

Re: Inside Japan’s Disposable Housing Market

#26

Post by Demiurge »

scratchandsniff wrote: post #22
bane wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen videos of lots full of perfectly working, but slightly used, appliances waiting to be dismantled and recycled in Japan. They don't even bother blocking entrance to the lot and they're mostly unattended, so anybody could in theory, just drive up and fill their house with all the appliances they need for nothing. You also rarely see old cars on the road because (my understanding is) that taxes incentivize peo…

This concept is fascinating given the general perception that Japanese products have for reliability and longevity.

This is probably an example of the non obvious shape of the reliability curve, which has a hump of failures early on, but then trails off. Effort to decrease reliability early on coincides with long term reliability.

Re: Inside Japan’s Disposable Housing Market

#27

Post by abhishivsaxena »

rcthompson wrote: post #23
bane wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen videos of lots full of perfectly working, but slightly used, appliances waiting to be dismantled and recycled in Japan. They don't even bother blocking entrance to the lot and they're mostly unattended, so anybody could in theory, just drive up and fill their house with all the appliances they need for nothing. You also rarely see old cars on the road because (my understanding is) that taxes incentivize peo…

I feel like it's a fallacy that things need to be constantly thrown out and replaced for an economy to be healthy. If someone doesn't have to spend $1000 on new appliances, it's not like that thousand dollars disappears from the economy. Either the person spends that money on something else or sticks it in their savings account and the bank loans some of it out for someone else to spend. (This is basic econ theory, s…

Over-saving? Domestic consumption would be lower since savings/investment are higher. Could lead to buildup of inventories, and make existing investment projects non-viable.

But I guess in Japan most of the portion of savings goes into international investments, which is good.

Re: Inside Japan’s Disposable Housing Market

#28

Post by mc32 »

eloisant wrote: post #3

"In a culture obsessed with newness" It's mostly because of earthquakes, they got used to buildings being temporary. Also sismic regulations are constantly evolving, so newer is safer (because more resistant to earthquake thanks to modern technics) and after some time it's more effective to destroy a building than do the necessary (and mandatory) work to keep up with the regulations. So no, the Japanese don't want ne…

Does freehold vs leasehold also affect the valuation of buildings? Towards the end the lease on the property the lease on leasehold properties are worth less, versus freehold properties? I'm asking because I dont know, but think I could have some impact on building values as they age.

Re: Inside Japan’s Disposable Housing Market

#29

Post by bane »

rcthompson wrote: post #23
bane wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen videos of lots full of perfectly working, but slightly used, appliances waiting to be dismantled and recycled in Japan. They don't even bother blocking entrance to the lot and they're mostly unattended, so anybody could in theory, just drive up and fill their house with all the appliances they need for nothing. You also rarely see old cars on the road because (my understanding is) that taxes incentivize peo…

I feel like it's a fallacy that things need to be constantly thrown out and replaced for an economy to be healthy. If someone doesn't have to spend $1000 on new appliances, it's not like that thousand dollars disappears from the economy. Either the person spends that money on something else or sticks it in their savings account and the bank loans some of it out for someone else to spend. (This is basic econ theory, s…

> If someone doesn't have to spend $1000 on new appliances, it's not like that thousand dollars disappears from the economy.

Yes it does. Modern economic systems are built on consumerism. Saving large sums of money acts like a vacuum on currency and brings markets to a halt. Flowing money lubricates the economy.

That's basically the sum total of the most recent economic crisis, money wasn't moving, so two presidential administrations through gigantic sums of money at the economy, like spraying it down with WD-40, until it started moving again.

> Either the person spends that money on something else or sticks it in their savings account and the bank loans some of it out for someone else to spend.

The problem is that in aggregate, if nobody is spending money, it doesn't move around at all. If nobody takes out a loan, then that money just sits in the bank. Sitting money means nobody needs to manufacture anything because nobody is buying anything, which means there's no reason to employ anybody, so nobody makes money. Because times are bad, they save what they have even more and spending continues to go down.

Fairly quickly the economy goes into a death spiral, and while plenty of people may have money, there's nothing to spend it on anyway.

China is using the same economic trick that's been used time and time again, in the U.S., Japan, other places, to kickstart their economy. It's dumping money into the economy in huge works projects, mostly construction related, and letting that money slosh around. Japan did it in the 80s, but it's no longer working as well as it once did, because pretty much everything they need to build is built, and the population is shrinking so they need even less things.

Re: Inside Japan’s Disposable Housing Market

#30

Post by marak830 »

I dont think its as bad as it sounds now. Oh btw my wife is Japanese, and were currently living in Yokohama. Now there is a taboo againt house from the early 80's(ill have to check with her for the exact date), as there were different building laws in relation to earthquakes.

Also a lot of the houses that are built with wood are undesirable -earthquakes, fire risk etc. We just rented a fairly good sized wooden apartment at quite a bit under market rates.

My point being there is a lot of new houses going up which are built to seemingly higher standards, which people want, conpared to say my Japabese grandparents house, which shakes if i move too quickly through it.

I do believe the trend is startibg to switch around though, as more houses become available in the "higher quality" bracket. (Note: i dont necessarily agree with the quality perceptions, im more of a case by case kind of guy).

One last thing someone mentioned about second hand cars: There really is a stigma, we had a mild argument about that the other day haha. I want a used card (around 4k aud), she wants a new one(12k aud). For shopping -.-

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